Why We’re Fated to Be Lonely (But That’s OK)

There are few more shameful confessions to make than that we are lonely. The basic assumption is that no respectable person could ever feel isolated – unless they had just moved country or been widowed.

Yet in truth, a high degree of loneliness is an inexorable part of being a sensitive, intelligent human. It’s a built-in feature of a complex existence. There are several big reasons for this:

- Much of what we need recognised and confirmed by others – a lot of what it would be extremely comforting to share – is going to be disturbing to society at large. Many of the ideas in the recesses of our minds are too odd, contrary, subtle or alarming to be safely revealed to anyone else. We face a choice between honesty and acceptability and – understandably – mostly choose the latter.

- It takes a lot of energy to listen to another person and enter sympathetically into their experiences. We should not blame others for their failure to focus on who we are. They may want to meet us, but we should accept the energy with which they will keep the topic of their own lives at the centre of the conversation.

- We must all die alone, which really means, that our pain is for us alone to endure. Others can throw us words of encouragement, but in every life, we are out on the ocean drowning in the swell and others, even the nice ones, are standing on the shore, waving cheerily.

- It is deeply unlikely that we will ever find someone on exactly the same page of the soul as us: we will long for utter congruity, but there will be constant dissonance because we appeared on the earth at different times, are the product of different families and experiences and are just not made of quite the same fabric. So they won’t be thinking just the same as us on coming out of the cinema. And looking out at the night sky, just when we want them to say something highbrow and beautiful, they will perhaps be remembering a painfully banal and untimely detail from an area of domestic life (or vice versa). It is – almost – comic.

- We will almost certainly never meet the people best qualified to understand us, but they do exist. Probably they once walked past us in the street, though neither of us had the slightest idea of the potential for connection. Or maybe they died in Sydney two weeks ago or won’t be born until the 22nd century. It isn’t a conspiracy. We would just have needed a lot more luck.

- The problem is sure to get worse, the more thoughtful and perceptive we are. There will simply be less people like us around. It isn’t a Romantic myth: loneliness truly is the tax we have to pay to atone for a certain complexity of mind.

- The desire to undress someone is for a long time far more urgent than the desire for good conversation – and so we end up locked in relationships with certain people we don’t have much to say to, because we were once fatefully interested in the shape of their nose and the colour of their remarkable eyes.

And yet, despite all this, we should not be frightened or discomfited by our pervasive loneliness.

At an exasperated moment, near the end of his life, the German writer Goethe, who appeared to have had a lot of friends, exploded bitterly: ‘No one has ever properly understood me, I have never fully understood anyone; and no one understands anyone else.’

It was a helpful outburst from such a great man. It isn’t our fault: a degree of distance and mutual incomprehension isn’t a sign that life has gone wrong. It’s what we should expect from the very start. And when we do, benefits may flow:

- Once we accept loneliness, we can get creative: we can start to send out messages in a bottle: we can sing, write poetry, produce books and blogs, activities stemming from the realisation that people around us won’t ever fully get us but that others – separated across time and space – might just.

- The history of art is the record of people who couldn’t find anyone in the vicinity to talk to. We can take up the coded offer of intimacy in the words of a Roman poet who died in 10BC or the lyrics of a singer who described just our blues in a recording from Nashville in 1963.

- Loneliness makes us more capable of true intimacy if ever better opportunities do come along. It heightens the conversations we have with ourselves, it gives us a character. We don’t repeat what everyone else thinks. We develop a point of view. We might be isolated for now, but we’ll be capable of far closer, more interesting bonds with anyone we do eventually locate.

- Even the people we think of as not lonely are in fact lonely. Years from now, members of that group who are presently out smiling and laughing may tell you, in a crisis, that they always felt misunderstood. The jovial camaraderie and laughter isn’t a proof that they have found an answer; it’s evidence of the desperate lengths some people go to hide the fact that we are all irremediably alone.

- Loneliness renders us elegant and strangely alluring. It suggests there’s more about us to understand than the normal patterns of social intercourse can accommodate – which is something to take pride in it. A sense of isolation truly is – as we suspect but usually prevent ourselves from feeling from fear of arrogance – a sign of depth. When we admit our loneliness, we are signing up to a club that includes the people we know from the paintings of Edward Hopper, the poems of Baudelaire and the songs of Leonard Cohen. Lonely, we enter a long and grand tradition; we find ourselves (surprisingly) in great company.

Enduring loneliness is almost invariably better than suffering the compromises of false community. Loneliness is simply a price we may have to pay for holding on to a sincere, ambitious view of what companionship must and could be.

学国画要不要学素描，那学油画、版画和雕塑呢？

画国画是否需要训练素描？当下国内的素描艺术和素描教育处于一个怎样的现状？澎湃新闻（www.thepaper.cn）记者走访了沪上各大艺术机构和艺术院校的专家，从国画、油画、版画、雕塑等各个方面来探讨这一话题。

张培成（上海美术家协会副主席）：

国画若要借鉴素描，必须以国画学的方式切入

画国画是否需要训练素描？这个问题很久以来一直是有争议的。

每个人对素描的内涵、外延的理解是不同的。我个人认为，不管油画、国画、版画，甚至是抽象艺术，都是在造型。如果素描是解决造型问题的一个便捷的手段的话，素描应该还是有必要学的。我国古代当然没有素描的概念，但当时的白描从某种宽泛的程度上来讲也是一种素描。

素描其实是一种对造型的判断力。这是一种感受对象的能力。我觉得对一位艺术家来说，这种感受的能力是相当重要的。比如看到一个人、一幅景，或是一个瓶，他会有感觉，有想要去表现的冲动。如果说这种感受力是天生的话，那也是需要通过素描的训练把这种潜能挖掘出来的。当然素描的方式也有不同，有被动模拟自然的，也有主动表现对象的。事实上，中国画适应的是后者。

西方素描解决的还有空间问题。立体、透视等，这些在油画中都是基本功。对国画来讲，画面是平面的，即使现在我们要画比较写实的国画，这种空间和油画也是不同的。所以，如果说中国画要学习素描的话，其侧重点和西画一定是不一样的。要不然会带来很多负面的效果。

其实在比我年长一些的国画家中，有些是非常有成就的艺术家，但依然碰到瓶颈，原因就是当年被灌输了太多西方的素描，这种影响很难摆脱，在用中国画的笔墨线条去表现的时候就产生问题了。这样的素描训练就成了枷锁，让中国画的表现很不自由。从这个角度讲，素描和国画是两个体系。尤其是对画山水、花鸟的画家，那是绝对不可以用这种素描的方法去训练的，不能像画西画一样去画石膏，他们甚至可以不画素描。

但如果从宽泛的角度来看，中国画的素描可以用另一种方法来训练。比如中国画画人物，需要很强的造型能力，因此造型训练必不可少。中国画的表现手法是书写性的，要求画家非常熟练地把想表达的东西一气呵成地表达出来，如果在造型上稍微有点迟疑，笔停住了，那书写性也大受影响，气马上就“断了”。但中国画的造型训练不应该画长期作业，不然反而对艺术的表现有损害。

张培成素描作品

另外，国画素描的画法也应该摒弃完全模拟对象的、一板一眼的画法。而在今天这个时代，也应该鼓励造型的多样性，画出自己心中的感觉，自由地创作，我觉得这更符合艺术的要求。

其实在古代，虽然不学西方意义上的素描，但也通过学习《芥子园画谱》、再早一点的各种粉本来理解造型。比如画花，就需要对花的结构非常理解。以齐白石为例，他没有画过西式素描，但他对对象的结构非常了解。记得曾经看过一份资料上说，齐白石要画鸭子，他对鸭子一掌着地时另外一只脚掌具体是怎样的都认真研究过，了然于心。从严格意义上讲，他这种搞清楚的过程我们也可以理解为素描的一种，因为他不光是心里搞清楚，还势必要通过笔头表现出来，那这其实也是对造型的一种研究。所以对国画来说，素描的训练应该有自己的一套方法，不是被对象“牵着鼻子走”，不该过分写实，而应该去捕捉更有意味的造型。

齐白石作品（局部）

老师应该经常去启发学生对艺术的感觉。每个人如果都有自己独特的趣味的话，都能找到自己，我们的艺坛就会丰富多彩了。尽管这很难做到。当然对传统的学习也是必须的。要不然这文化就传不下来了。

国画老师以前在教学的时候开课徒稿，一是教给学生物象的造型，还有是一种程式。学生从这里知道牡丹是长得怎样的，有几种画法，了解中国画画法独特的形式语言，也就是作画的程式。对此我觉得有优点，但是也有短板，那就是中国画的学生除非自己有特别的才能，这样一点点才能脱离老师，画出和老师不一样的牡丹、竹子来，不然就很容易陷入程式化的模式。

其实创作应该要多走出去直接面对自然，写生很重要，当然其中完全可以融入自己内心的主观的东西。我看到过朱屺瞻先生画的写生，他就用一个小本子和钢笔勾一幢房子等等，很多东西都在他心里。

我可以说现在画竹子的人很少出去看真的竹子，而只是从程式里套，所以全国人民可能都画出来一样的竹子。我们的古人所创造出的这套程式是对着真的竹子总结出来的。我们今天如果有写生的能力，也完全可以对着今天的竹子，去创造出一套新的程式——这种程式不同于古人，但又和我们民族文化的根连在一起。而这就需要塑造对象的能力。

“文革”刚结束的时候，教育部曾经展开过一个大讨论说国画要不要素描。素描是不是国画的基础？我认为，说“素描是国画的基础”这肯定是不对的。但素描的造型能力却是国画可以借鉴的。而这种借鉴应该要以国画学的素描方式去切入。我觉得，国画的学生在上素描课的时候，完全可以就用毛笔来画。比如画石膏伏尔泰，你可以画得像他，也可以不像他，但很有毛笔的笔意在里面。这样西式素描对中国画的束缚就可以大大减轻。

姜建忠（上大美院油画系主任，博导）：

素描是顿“自助餐”，个性化地挑选才能发现自我

当下中国艺坛风起云涌，素描教学理念却已滞后。目前美术学院油画专业在课堂上所理解的素描含义，更多的依然是前苏联走了调的二手盗版模式，素描已经是一种“八股文”式的东西，是教条；放置在时代的背景中，它就像冰箱中的咸鱼已不鲜活了。

素描好比通往彼岸路上的一片必经的沼泽地。如果素描基础差，画面就会弱。但长期以来国内学院的学生中，大多数人走进这片泥泞的沼泽地却很难自拔。在美院，素描课天天碰到，然而当今的素描究竟怎样画？大多数人没有思考过，依然沿着素描教条实施，学生被动地学习。学生只知道把一张素描磨得很细腻，但却不懂得去捕捉特征，不懂造型，不懂素描是认知事物的一种方式，仅仅把模特儿当作道具来写生，没有生命力和灵魂。

学生在学习素描法则的同时，不知道通过法则去达到什么目的。大多数的学生进美院，是因为他们热爱绘画，他们会在文化课堂上，情不自禁地在课本上涂抹上几笔，勾画出一些幼稚但很生动的人物。但是当他们进入教室，面对模特时，那些想象力已荡然无存。他们迷失在“苏式”的素描包袱里，眼睛与对象之间被无数的体块、调子、方法、规律所遮挡并产生障碍，他的每一笔都是为了体现这些法则而工作，至于对象鲜活的特征和自己的感受已经麻木了。我想不少人都有这样的体会，当家长每天硬喂给孩子吃饭的时候，往往效果适得其反，结果是厌食症。

在被动式教育的模式下，还会产生一种怪胎，越是传统石膏技巧掌握得好的学生，毕业后创作欲望越是少。我们国内高考素描更多的是应试教育，个性化的东西非常少，这种“公共性”的评判标准对敲开大学之门很实用，但进了大学之后，这种素描对于一个学生要成为艺术家来说是不利的。学生应该从自己的内心和感受，去寻找一条“私人化”的素描之路，不要太多的“公共性”。我认为对油画专业的学生应提倡以短期作业与速写为主，训练眼睛的敏锐性和造型的概括力。用最简练的方式去捕捉最生动的东西。其实西方古代大师的成长之路，更多的是画短期作业。

其实传统是动态的，需要你根据自己的需要“找到”传统。东西方的美术史那么悠久、那么丰富，你能全部“咽”下去吗？消化不了，对你而言 ，就没有多少价值。你只能用自助餐的方式，选择适合自己肠胃结构的食物食用。如果凡·高去学安格尔的话，那凡·高就不存在了。当你发现，并“消化”了那些“传统”的时候，你就体验到了“转换性创造”的奥秘，你也渐渐发现了自己。

素描的训练，并不是仅仅通过写生或模拟对象来实现；更重要的是按照个人的嗜好、秉性，根据所处的时代，在观念上、表现手法上、造型上不断去吸收修正美术史，在写生中借用前人的经验植入现实中。

姜建忠素描作品

不少当今成功的艺术家由于历史的原因，是“改革开放”后在西方大师的油画中才发现了自己，而不是在素描中领悟的。因此大多数人较习惯于在画布上，用油画材料和工具直接思考表述自己的观念，很少用素描的形式来思考或阐释个人的艺术观点。素描仅仅被看作是基础训练，而不是一门独立的艺术。许多人把创作与素描截然分开，画素描时是一种思维模式，搞创作时又是一套思维模式，把两者对立起来。然而，这类画家的作品很难走远。

因此，素描对有些艺术家而言已经久违了，就像学生考试一样，完毕后，就恨不得把课本甩了，胜利大逃亡，不愿再回首过去。素描在国内属于几乎连边缘都谈不上的位置。其实对于艺术家而言，素描依然很重要，是艺术家的艺术立场，有时素描的记录更贴切，自然、朴实、方便。素描是艺术手记，是艺术家心理的轨迹和行为方式，是创作的前站、是创作的一部分、是创作本身！有什么样的素描，就有什么样的油画。历史上这样的例子比比皆是，如凡·高，安格尔、埃贡·席勒、弗洛伊德等等。

寻找自己的思考点，培养独立的思考能力，从自身出发，已显得迫在眉睫！请在美术史这庞大的菜单中，阶段性地选择自己所钟爱的画风，寻找兴奋点吧！特别在学生时代，要不断替换大师的拖鞋走走，游走于美术史和对象之间，在生活与历史、在现代与传统之间寻找接口。不要把基础训练与创作对立起来，基础训练中应该有创作的成分。也许这应该与打基础的第一天同时起步！

顺便一提，在当代，油画专业与中国画专业的造型训练面临着共同课题。如果把素描看作是方法论的话，那么其含义就会很宽泛。其实世界各民族都有着自己的造型方法和对世界认知的独特性，只是被边缘化了。

中国传统的造型理念与西方的区别在于，中国人的雕塑理念是跟着绘画走的，衣纹线条完全是平面线条的理念，讲究的是疏密、通达、顺气、含蓄，追求的是平面。而西方的绘画是跟着雕塑走的，讲究的是光影、空间、力度，追求的是体积。针对初学者提倡画石膏像，就缘于此。

也许这世界一直是多元的，只是由于各种原因，我们已经忘记了自己的传统。有意思的是中国画专业的理念出现了西方素描的思维现象，而西方却在靠近东方的平面化。一个民族在她的文化形成中依然是在选择适合其民族发展的东西，始终处于吸收、排斥、整合之中。选择、教会学生如何去找食吃，这才是最重要的。

西方美学的发展，基本上是跟随着科学的发展而演绎，传统的素描理念是西方人对自然世界认识和把握的结果。然而当照相技术普及以后，再现自然的素描理念发生了危机……如果19世纪以来中国的历史是对西方的回应，那么，当今时代最终是否可被看作是“西方对东方的回应”？如果我们绕开东西方文化对立的怪圈，才有可能不落入别人的文化窠穴，也不落入自己的窠穴。或许，我们要做的是站在自己的土壤上，从个人的视线出发，追溯、梳理东西方文化传统，融会贯通，生成自己。

卢治平（中国美术家协会版画艺术委员会副主任）：

启用素描的“十八般武艺”，启迪多元和多样的创作

素描这个提法起源于西方。但如果说素描涵指一切单色绘画的话，那么从广义上讲我国古代用毛笔勾勒线条的方法其实也可以视作一种素描。甚至于现在有人认为，水墨也是素描的一种形式，只不过当时不这么称呼而已。其实，世界各国早期的艺术创作多数是用单色来表现的，比如岩画、拓片等等。

素描对于所有造型艺术的入门和发展多有裨益。对于版画来说，很长一段历史时期里，它都是以单色为主，比如早期的黑白木刻、铜版画、石版画等，所以版画与素描有特别的渊源。素描应该被看做版画创作的重要支撑。

在教学领域，对于如何认识与处理素描教育与版画创作的关系，历来是一个受到重视的课题。在“文革”前后，为了使基础教学更快地与版画创作（特别是黑白木刻）对接，当时国内的一些美术院校就专门设计了一套素描教学体系，他们不是从光影色调出发，而是更多地从结构和体块出发来训练素描。这是专门为版画教学设计的特别形式的素描。

这个想法在当时有一定道理，在一个阶段里对推动版画的发展也挺有成效。但从现在的眼光来看，任何事情都有利有弊。当时的素描教学的依据是：版画应该有固定的模式——大块面、大黑白，而素描是为这个固定模式服务的。但当国门打开以后发现，其实版画的形式也是多种多样的。比如，有些铜板画就对光影特别讲究，还一些版画却特别强调线条肌理和形式感等等。而不同的素描就可能启发艺术家创作出不同风格的版画作品，让版画呈现出一种更加丰富的面貌。这样说来，一开始就设定好某种素描对应某种版画的固定套路就比较片面了。

卢志平版画作品《老人》

事实上在国画创作中也一样。举例而言，如果你一开始设定国画多用线条，就强调学生多用线描，但后来发现国画也可以泼墨、可以没骨，可以有许多其他的方法，那种一开始就定框框的训练方法对学生而言就可能成为束缚。相反，如果一开始就鼓励学生尝试多种素描，那他今后无论从事那种艺术门类的创作，眼光都能更加开阔。从这个角度说，素描不但是一种教会学生画画的手段，其本质是一种观察方法和思维方式的训练。现在各个领域不都在提倡创意吗？那我认为素描可以作为一种突破原有框框的手法。以这种思路去实践素描可能更具意义和合理性。

至于高校招生中广受诟病的素描考试方法，我觉得是整个教育领域多年来的积弊造成的，这完全是一种功利性的做法。让老师去设定一个模式，便于评分和录取，至于对学生今后的成长是否有利考虑得比较少。像我接触的很多学生可以说就是这种教育体制的“牺牲品”。因为我们版画创作在很多时候特别不提倡去如实描摹眼前的对象，依葫芦画瓢，而更强调创造性，所以很多学生来到之后感到手足无措，没有方向。

我们尝试让学员学会通过观察、概括、取舍、想象、变异、创造等手法，改变他们原来依赖描摹对象的固有思维，让他们用抽象的方法、想象的方法、设计构成的方法，逐步把他们的思维模式扭转过来。

举例而言，在训练学生练习构图的时候，我会要求他们：同一题材能不能构出十张的不同画面？比如同样是三个苹果能不能有多种摆法？黑白关系能否有不同的处理？这就逼迫他们必须打开思路。等他们构图完成后，我说这个时候你们自己在其中选一张自己认为最好的就是了。事实上，只要思路打开了，手就跟上了。速写和构图训练都是素描的一种形式，既是一种创作手段，也是一种思考的依托。之后的大稿可能和素描构图不完全一样，但这没关系，创作者能从其中的一根线条背后看到更多线条和可能性，从而摆脱对对象的依赖。

当然，我觉得任何一种素描形式，去了解和尝试一下都是有益的，包括高校招生中广受诟病的画石膏像。其实学习如何将作品推向深入本身并没有错。问题出在把这样的一种素描形式推崇成为唯一的金科玉律，这就不对了。我觉得，如果能够掌握苏联式的比较严谨的观察方法，步步推进的塑造方式，同时又能从中跳出来，那就好了。

我以前也接受过这套苏式教育。我当时的老师跟我说：“等到三年、五年、十年以后，你大概会体会到这种长期作业对你起的作用”。如今我深有体会，长期素描的价值不在于逼真地还原对象，其价值在于让我学会细致全面的观察；学会缜密严谨的取舍权衡；学会充分恰当层层推进的表达，还可以用来研究探索多种多样的表现手法。这是能力、思维、同时也是心态的训练

在造型艺术中，版画可能是风格面貌和技法特别丰富的一个画种，所以与之对应的素描形式也应该是多种多样的。比如铜版画中有一种叫“美柔汀”的技法，追求丰富而微妙的色调变化，不像黑白木刻那样色块分明。对于这种版画技法，苏联式长期素描作业的功夫就都派上用场了。十八般武艺各有千秋，就看对谁、在什么场合适用。

西方有些学生或者学校不重视素描，不会画，这不应该成为我们必须效仿的对象。当然他们重视思维的训练方法也有可取之处，但这不代表“手上功夫好”错了。现在西方绘画也在回归，一段时间跑偏，有些矫枉过正也属正常。作为我们来讲，没有必要见异思迁，跟潮流跑，好像大家不会画画才是“正道”，这完全没有必要。

杨剑平（上大美院副院长、雕塑系教授，博导）：

当下素描教学如同雾霾，是个“综合征”

素描，顾名思义是一种以简单而朴素的方式去描绘形象的方法。从历史上看素描和雕塑有着紧密的联系。对于雕塑家来说，素描是基础训练、更是一种记录思想以及创作灵感的方法，很多雕塑家除了立体的雕塑作品外，还留下来特别多的手稿，比如米开朗琪罗、罗丹。

米开朗基罗素描

相对而言中国传统雕塑、绘画与西方的古典写实样式、方法都不太一样。它有老祖宗传下来的独特的艺术造型样式和创方法。中国古代雕塑有自己严格的型制，通过粉本的描摹、文字数据的心传口授，例如一尊佛造像的开相就有很具体的数据，都是有法度的。东方重的是传承而不是创新，但这些造型又别具一格。所以素描作为一种基础练习或者记录创作手段，广义上的形式其实是很多的。

雕塑本身，由于东西方文化的不同、材料的不同、观念的不同，最后呈现的样式非常多元化，甚至可以是以观念的、装置的方式来呈现。作为素描教学也应该要跟上。不然你一味去训练每个学生画具象，但到最后很多人其实根本不搞具象。并不是说我们现在学的“学院式”素描没有可取之处，但至少所有的人都去做这件事就不好了。应该有所区分，对于那些坚持搞具象的学生，让他们把传统写实素描研究好。其他的学生可以作为了解，但没有必要花太多的课时在上面。不同的学生应该有不同的训练侧重。

素描的方式其实多种多样，比如包豪斯的素描训练方法是画结构关系。再看看传统的大师米开朗琪罗、达·芬奇、荷尔拜因、丢勒等，那些线条美极了，极具表现性。我们要反对教条，要有活跃的思想和批判的精神。

杨剑平作品《惊蛰》

我们这一代人学习素描，穿着“红舞鞋”一路跳来倒也享受了其中的愉悦。我们到一个地方考察，掏出素描本来记录，动手画觉得很过瘾，一张画需要半天。可现在的年轻人不一样，他们情愿掏出手机来拍张照，拍个视频，省时又省力。他们现在的考察更多的是体验，节奏快了，看的东西也多了。互联网时代，这样的变革有时说来也无可厚非，同时也提出一个问题：我们究竟需要怎样的基础训练，要画怎样的素描？摄影术诞生以来对于记录性的绘画就是一种冲击，之后的艺术表现更多的是思想。我们现在所有的学生还都去画一样的、像照片一样的素描吗？这里面肯定是有问题的。

我们通常说大师的素描画得好。其实，达·芬奇不仅仅是画家，他还是博物学家，是个科学家和思想家。我们现在总是说要学大师的线条，但人是综合的。一个人因为有能力有思想，是个艺术家，所以他才能画得好。庖丁解牛的典故里的那句话“臣之所好者，道也；进乎技矣”很有道理，现在人只好“技”而不求“道”，本末倒置了。

这和我们现在的高考制度也有很大关系。学生为了考试整天学的就是这些模式化的素描，进了大学之后他们就不知道该干什么了。有些人觉得素描就该这样画。所以说进来的学生是老师想要的学生吗？但如果不想要，那又能要谁？中国，那么多人口，不通过这个办法如何选拔入大学？高考素描现在确实广受诟病，但要改革的话可不是那么简单。

现在美术教育中存在的问题其实是个“综合征”，和中国的国情有关，就像中国的雾霾一样。你说学生只知道画石膏，也不能怪他们，他们从小的美育就很缺乏。另外一方面，中国的学生毕业后，无论是生存的需要还是家庭的期待都是需要他们就业的，这样所学的东西就不得不“实用”。从某种程度上说，美术学院在中国不是培养艺术家的，而是解决社会就业问题的。

教学大纲上面清清楚楚写着“素描头像”、“静物”，你即使不认可也必须要上这个课。相较而言，研究生阶段相对灵活一点。总之，大的国情、教育制度、师资，甚至还有意识形态等一系列问题都让教学改革举步维艰。

（本系列文章由姜岑根据采访整理）

秦晖：晚清出了一批“毕福剑”

自鸦片战争之后，中国开始打开国门，走向世界，在此过程中，体用之争一度成为政治正确的关键选项。时至今日，中国仍处在现代化的转型之中，中西比较是转型讨论的常规话题。中西之不同到底在哪里？如何看待西方价值？在中国怎样当一个合格的左右派？近日，著名学者秦晖对此作出了自己的解读。此为系列之二，之一为《中西之别在问题意识，而非价值观》，之三为《在中国怎样当一个合格的左右派》。

西方文化比洋枪洋炮更早影响中国

近代以后，西方对中国产生了非常大的影响。西方人把我们打败了，他们船坚炮利，我们知道落后就要挨打，或者说挨打证明落后，于是我们学那些打败我们的人。有些人还造出一种三段论，说中国人最早佩服西方的器物，西方人把我们打败了，我们对洋枪洋炮感兴趣，于是有了洋务运动，开始学造枪造炮。但有了洋枪洋炮之后还是被打败，像中法、中日战争，都是在有了洋枪洋炮军舰的情况下被打败的。中国人又说光学器物还不够，还要学制度，于是有了戊戌变法。但是搞了共和结果还是不行，这个时候中国人才认识到西方的文化是最重要的，要学西方的价值观，就有了新文化运动等等。

这个所谓的由器物到制度再到文化的过程，听起来有道理，但是仔细分析，就发现远远不是那么回事。西方对中国文化的影响，真的比洋枪洋炮要晚吗？不说别的，太平天国运动1851年发生的时候，连洋务运动还没有。鸦片战争后，的确有极少数人意识到洋枪洋炮的厉害，但大部分中国人，包括清政府，也根本没有把洋枪洋炮当作一回事。重视洋枪洋炮其实是在火烧圆明园以后，主要也不是因为火烧圆明园，而是因为洋鬼子把一些刁民杀的尸横遍野，李鸿章、曾国藩这些人觉得洋枪洋炮很管用。

所以中国人重视洋枪洋炮是很晚的事，早在这之前，中国人对西方文化就已经产生了很大的好感，而且有一些好感走入了误区，太平天国是一个例子。早在1843年，鸦片战争刚刚打完，徐继畲就写了《瀛环志略》，然后就对民族制度介绍了很多，而且称赞不已，说美国实行选举制度，“推举之法,几于天下为公,浸浸乎三代之遗志”。也就是说，这真是中国的三代才有的盛事，他们是用孔孟之道来评论西方，用他们的语言讲，西方搞的符合孔孟之道，我们搞的完全是礼崩乐坏。一看西方，孔孟之道真的可以实行，而且实行了就是这个样子，所以值得我们学习。

当时人们不是从所谓西方价值观，而是从儒家的价值观去看宪政的，他们评价西方的那些话语全都是儒家话语，我们现在讲的自由、民主、平等、法治这些词，他们当时不知道，他们讲的就是仁义道德。中国的士大夫到西方以后，看西方国家对自己老百姓，再看看我们国家，几乎所有人都有一种感觉，西方国家真是礼仪之邦，而我们真是礼崩乐坏。持这种观点，而且因为讲这些倒了大霉的，中国第一个驻欧大使郭嵩焘是一个。郭嵩焘本身是一个国学大师，一个理学家，翰林院出身。翰林院相当于今天的社科院了，是专门搞意识形态的，而且他写过研究《易经》的书，比现在的国学家水平要高多了。郭嵩焘出国的时候已经58岁了，不可能希望他价值观上有太大的变化，他的确也没有什么变化。但到了西方以后，对西方称赞备至，他还是个孔孟的信徒，但是站在孔孟的角度，他认为中国搞的一塌糊涂，西方简直是圣人之治。

按照他的说法，孔孟不是讲天下为公吗？中国自秦以后就是家天下，糟糕透了；孔孟不是讲行仁政吗？什么叫行仁政？民主政府对它的国民就是行仁政。而秦以后的历朝历代，用中国古人的话讲，是以天下为刍狗，根本不把人当人。因此郭嵩焘回国后谈到西方经常讲，“每叹西洋国政民风之美”。郭嵩焘不是不知道西方的船坚炮利，他出使了英国后，建议清朝派人到英国去学海军，人被派去以后他还觉得不够，他写过一个奏折说，日本也有很多人在英国学海军，人数比中国多，中国要警惕，搞不好日本就超过中国了。因此，不能说他不重视船坚炮利，但实际上他在英国发表的感想和游记中，船坚炮利只是很小一部分，大量的内容是“每叹西洋国政民风之美”。在洋务运动前和初期称赞西方的人几乎都是这样的，比如在1850年代活动的王韬曾经讲过，西洋以礼仪为要，以仁义为基，以教化和德为本。

郭嵩焘的晚辈薛福成，后来是洋务运动时期的思想家。薛福成记载了这样一件事，郭嵩焘“每叹西洋国政民风之美，遇亦稍讶其言之过当”，他听了以后还不太相信，因为他没有去过西方，就问了几个去过西方的人，像陈荔秋、黎莼斋，凡是去过西方的人，都说郭嵩焘讲的很对。

晚清出了一批“毕福剑”

在驻欧洲使团中，正使郭嵩焘是一个以称赞西方闻名的人，后来在国内被骂成汉奸。而他的副手刘锡鸿是一个极端保守派，整天向国内打小报告，揭露郭嵩焘称赞洋人之事，很多鸡毛蒜皮都被他拿去报告。有一次郭嵩焘参观英国的一个军事基地，当天下着雨，英国人递给郭嵩焘一把伞，他就打了。刘锡鸿马上打了个小报告，作为中国人应该有骨气，淋死都不打伞，郭嵩焘结果竟敢打洋人的伞，证明他是汉奸。

还有一次郭嵩焘应邀参观音乐会，他把桌位前的节目单拿来翻了几眼，刘锡鸿又打了个小报告，说去听洋人的音乐还不够，还要看人家的节目单，可见崇洋媚外到了什么地步。

驻美国的使团恰好相反，副使容闳是著名的开明人士，他还是中国第一个耶鲁大学的毕业生，写过《西学东渐记》。他在1860年代从耶鲁大学毕业，回国后就鼓动洋务，曾国藩、李鸿章都很欣赏他，就派他去美国做副使，正使是陈兰彬。荣闳建议中国应该派留学生到美国，于是就有了留美幼童的计划，第一批几十个小孩，到了那里先学了几年的英语，毕业以后考试进入美国的大学去学专业，这些人真的很不错，基本上都考上了，而且很多考上了很有名的大学。可是在他们刚刚进入专业学习的时候，陈兰彬就在国内打了个小报告，说容闳图谋不轨，西方正好想对我们搞和平演变，用歪门邪道影响我们，我们中国正人君子一到西方就学坏了，西方都是乌烟瘴气的世界，要赶快刹车。他这么鼓动，李鸿章和曾国藩都不太同意，但皇上支持，最后把这个事情搞黄了。

陈兰彬是极其保守的，容闳对他也是深恶痛绝，他在的回忆录中说，陈兰彬在朝堂上一谈到西方就会揎拳舞袖，把袖子撸起来要打西方人的样子。可这样一个正人君子，一个非常敌视西方的人，私底下讲的完全不一样。薛福成私下问他，说郭嵩焘“每叹西洋国政民风之美”，是不是真的？陈兰彬说的确是，西方的国政民风就是美，可是他在朝堂上讲的完全是相反的话。当时我看了这个记载以后，我都不相信这个陈荔秋就是陈兰彬，而且我问了王元化先生，王元化先生也说不是，后来实际上证明就是他。

我后来给这些人起了个名称，叫做“晚清毕福剑”，这些人在官场上讲的话，和私下讲的话是完全不一样的。陈兰彬在朝堂上一谈到西方就揎拳舞袖，但是在私下他是一个“每叹西洋国政民风之美”的人。

在清末，夸赞西方是政治不正确

刘锡鸿整天指责郭嵩焘崇洋媚外，但是刘锡鸿后来也留下了一个日记，看他的日记你会发现，这个人崇洋媚外比郭嵩焘有过之而无不及，而且他观察西方很细致。比如说，英国官有一次请他去参观监狱，刘锡鸿拒绝了，他心想，肯定是事先做过布置了，是形象工程，看不到真东西。但是他很有心，当时就把这个监狱地址记下来了。有一天他跟使馆几个人买东西，走到那儿突然提出进去看看。陪同的英国人请示了有关方面，有关方面说可以，结果他去了。他说这个监狱很人道，犯人吃得很好养得很胖，而且还训练他们一技之长，使他们出来以后有正常的谋生手段。还有一次，英国某个部门让他去参观济贫院，他也不去，说这个也事先做过布置了，但是他后来又跑去微服私访了一通，觉得真不错。他又跑到伦敦以外的地方去看了一下，后来他说英国这种设施很多，除了伦敦以外，城乡都有。

伊丽莎白以后，英国搞过制度化的扶贫，穷人可以进入济贫院，只要申请，国家就可以提供基本保障。当然，用后来的角度看是一个很低档的做法，因为当时穷人如果要得到国家救济，必须申请入院，住在自己家里是没有人管的。但是，在刘锡鸿看来，这里简直好到家了，穷人没有饭吃没有衣穿，只要申请，国家可以解决问题。而且他发现，这是英国的制度性安排，真是仁义之极端也，伦敦有，其他地方也有。他觉得英国真是一个很有趣的国家，上下同心，以礼治主，不传国事，这个地方无闲官，无游民，无上下隔阂之情，无残暴不仁之政，地方整齐肃穆，人民欢欣鼓舞，不徒以富强为能事，诚未可以匈奴、回纥待之矣。

1870年代中国和日本的关系不是很坏，两个国家彼此比较了解，到了西方他们都是东方人，可以说他们都算老乡，起码都是亚洲人。因此，他们经常串门，有一次日本公使来吃饭，和郭嵩焘聊天说，我们两个国家没有钱，国家征税，老百姓很反感，不愿意交税。你看英国，政府财政很充裕，老百姓很愿意交税，到底是为什么呢？刘锡鸿就说，那当然，英国人征税，那是老百姓选出议员在议会中决定的，我们大家都需要这个公共服务，大家当然是愿意了。这就是我们经常讲的无代表不纳税，刘锡鸿虽然没有用这个词，但是他把这个道理讲得很清楚。他说，征税去干什么，谁都不知道，而且征税也没有通过我们，当然没有人愿意交了。郭嵩焘听了以后就很惊奇，郭嵩焘在日记中说，想不到刘锡鸿还有这种见识。

刘锡鸿在自己的日记中对英国是这样的评价，可是他在朝堂上讲的是什么话呢？完全相反。所以当时中国人，在朝堂上讲这种话是比较少的，因为政治不正确容易遭受迫害，像郭嵩焘就是因为讲了这个话，结果被打了小报告，被罢官了，有些人说他是汉奸，要治他的罪，后来还是曾国藩这些人把他保下来的。

可是打他小报告这些人，实际上比他还要清楚，像刘锡鸿就是。当时还有一种人，不打小报告，但是也是闭口不谈这些敏感问题的。像李鸿章的副手张树声，这个人在思想史上没有丝毫的地位，因为他不是思想家，也没有什么著作，但是这个人是个官场老手，官当得很大，而且基本上都是在当时的通商口岸附近当大官。他当过两广总督，当过两江总督，都是在改革开放的前沿地区，他也组织人去研究洋务，而且还招募了像薛福成这样的人当他的幕僚。他虽然没有出过国，但实际上对西方也是了解的。  

但是他从来没有说过比较前卫的话，而且还说过一些很保守的话。他曾经给皇帝写奏折，说论中国声明文物高出万国之上,自强之道除练兵、造船、简器数端外,不必一一效法西人。也就是说，西方没有什么可称道的，就是能打仗，所以军事方面我们可能要学一学，其他方面就用不着学了。可是到了1884年，这个时候他得了重病，他口授了一封给皇上的遗折，这个遗折用马送到北京，送到北京时他已经死了。我们通常讲，人之将死其言也善，鸟之将亡其鸣也哀。他临死也就不用考虑当官的事了，于是讲了一番心里话，他说我们现在要向洋人学习，而且主要不是学习军事，要学体不是要学用。

现在不太宣扬的一些儒家道德，他们也认为西方做得好。比如忠孝之道，中国人据说都是孝敬父母，忠于君王。可是这些人跑到英国一看，中国人是大逆不道的人，只有英国人是真正的忠君爱国。按照这些人的说法，中国人连忠君爱国都要向西方人学。刘锡鸿就提到，英国人真是忠君，英国的国王其实没有什么权力，忠不忠于他，对实际利害没有什么关系。在这种情况下，英国人对国王是非常忠诚的。其国人奏乐诵经，众宴杂耍，也要先颂祝君主。英国王子生病了，全国人民都为王子祈祷，病好了，全国人民都感谢上帝，为王子的病愈而到教堂里去还愿，真是把刘锡鸿感动坏了。

一千年了，英国的王统始终没变

刘锡鸿注意到，英国从来没有改朝换代，从来没有发生过外姓人去夺权。英国历史上有很多王朝，诺曼王朝，一直到现在的温莎王朝。有些历史学家写文章说，英国也有改朝换代。可是，英国改朝换代和中国完全不是一回事，只要观察一下它的历史你就会发现，英国前一个王朝的最后一个君主，就是新王朝的第一个君主，实际上就是换了个王徽。就王统而言，始终没有换，只是在1066年有过一次王统更迭，从1066年一直到今天，将近一千年过去了，英国的王统始终没有变。

中国意义上的改朝换代，他们那里是没有的。如果用中国的朝代观念去看，会引起非常大的误解，比如说英国历代君王中，最知名的就是维多利亚女王了，维多利亚女王被认为是大英帝国黄金时代的象征。今天动不动谈黄金时代就是维多利亚时代，去过白金汉宫的，会看到宫殿前面就是维多利亚女王的像。维多利亚女王是汉诺威王朝的最后一代君主，她的儿子爱德华七世就换成哥达王朝了。如果按照中国人王朝更迭的眼光看，维多利亚女王，就是一个亡国之君，因为她是末代皇帝，她的儿子就换了一个王朝。为什么换呢？因为英国是一个女性也可以继承王位的国家，女性一旦传位给她的儿子，儿子喜欢用父亲的王徽，他就改了一个王徽，之后王朝就变了。实际上这和整个统治体系没有任何关系。

英国历史上最近一次改朝换代，很多英国历史学家都不一定知道。我们大概知道维多利亚女王当时的丈夫是萨克森公爵是一个德国人，他的儿子就用了萨克森公爵的王徽，所以就变成萨克森·科堡·哥达王朝了。英国人非常重视王统，王统是不能随便改变的，继承王位的人肯定是皇帝那一家子的人，当然不一定只是儿子，有时候可能是女儿，如果是女儿的话，他女儿的儿子，用我们中国话讲就是外姓人了，但是从血统来讲是没有问题的，没有其他的人去打这个主意。

中国现在把英文词Dynasty翻译成王朝，《水浒传》开篇有一句话，朱李石刘郭，梁唐晋汉周，都来十五帝，播乱五十秋。就是说50年中，中国换了5个朝代，而且这5个朝代真的是5个姓。其实还不止5个姓，因为后唐后周都是两个姓的，而且往往一改朝换代，就把前朝统治者和家属全部杀光。

但是他们不是这样，他们在乎王统，但是不在乎族属，经常有外国人当皇帝，讲确切一点叫外族人。中世纪的西方，民族国家概念是很淡的，他们经常跟外族通婚。如果你是女王，你儿子的父亲就是一个外国人，你本人可能都是在外国长大的。英国光荣革命以后，君主还是有一部分权力的，光荣革命以后几十年，当时英国好像是乔治三世，从德国来，不懂英语，那时候议会开会，国王可以参加，虽然没有决定权，但是国王的话大家还是很尊重。可是这个乔治三世听不懂英语，就不愿意出席会议。他后来几十年没有参加这个会议，于是就成了一个惯例，后来英国国王就再也不参加这个会议了，彻底成了虚君。

欧洲当时有个很常见的现象，就是有意要让外族人来当国王。当然，他必须有王统根据。像波兰历史上，大部分国王都是外部来的。一个很简单的道理，当时封建制下的诸侯是互不相下的，我也是诸侯，你也是诸侯，凭什么你管我？大家就请外面的人来管大家，这个人我们都认，和我们没有瓜葛。他们不太重视族属，或者用中国语言讲，他们并不在乎夷狄当国王。当然夷狄不是一般的夷狄，也和王统有关系。

英国人非常在乎的，除了王统以外，就是信仰。一般来讲，国王和他臣民的信仰必须是一致的，否则臣民就不太乐意。光荣革命的直接原因很简单，就是因为当时英国国王是一个天主教徒，大部分英国的新教徒不愿意接受这个国王。怎么办呢？就找了一个荷兰的执政，荷兰的执政也和英国王统有一点关系，但是远远不如当时的国王近。如果要讲血统的话，当时英国国王90%多的英格兰血统，那个荷兰执政，大概只有10%的英格兰血统，而且不会讲英语。更奇怪的是，这个人不是退休的荷兰统治者，而是在任的荷兰统治者，等于是英国人请一个在任的外国总统，去当自己的国王，就因为他是新教徒。

没有忠君观念，中国搞不成君主立宪

中国的儒家有一个长处就是重视文化，而不重视种族。中国人是不是真的是这样的？我不知道。有一些圣贤说，华夏如果不讲礼仪，就是夷狄，夷狄如果懂得礼仪，那就是华夏，这是以文化来而不是以族源来划分。可是中国历史上，没有看到一个夷狄进了华夏，然后华夏就把他请来当国王的。当然，他打进来就是另外一回事了，像蒙古人根本没有汉化，他也当了将近一百年的皇上。中国真的没有迎来一个懂得礼仪的夷狄来当国王，而英国是有的，而且几乎所有欧洲国家，好像都有这样的例子。

当然刘锡鸿没有扯到宗教，但是他注意到一点，他说英国人忠于君主是出自内心的，正是因为他们出自内心，因为英国国王是没有什么权力的，因此人们由衷的爱戴，不可能有什么实际的利益，英国国王虽无独断善举，亦能不赋予情，故国民贤以福德归之矣。

很有意思的是，凡是到过英国的人，都对这一点有兴趣。比刘锡鸿稍晚，有一个人叫张德仪，他也出使英国，也提到了这件事，而且他讲得更透。他除了与刘锡鸿有相同的感叹以外，他还认为，正因为英国的国王是虚君，无独断自主之权，故民无不尊重之，可见非位即威，乃怀其德而感其人也。他说英国国王尊重君主不是害怕君主，而是真正尊重君主，不尊重他也不会有什么太大的危险，他说这是真的忠君。

在俄国，叶利钦取缔苏共，苏联当时在人大全票通过了他的建议，尽管苏联当时的人大都是在苏联时期选出来的，几乎所有人都是共产党，但是没有人一个反对他。只有一个人站出来，说取缔苏共是不对的，违背民族的原则，也违背廉政。站出来说话的是罗伊·麦德维杰夫，是苏联最著名的持不同政见者。在勃列日涅夫时代，他被开除党籍，流放到粮站，在那里被整了几十年。戈尔巴乔夫时代刚给他平反，恢复了他的党籍，当了人大代表，过了一个多月苏联就垮台了，只有他站出来说为苏共说话。所以你说到底谁忠于苏共呢？是那些当年开除了麦德维杰夫的那些人忠于苏共吗？还是麦德维杰夫本人忠于苏共呢？

因此张德仪和刘锡鸿这些人，还是挺有眼光的，他认为即使要讲忠君爱国，讲孝顺，英国人也是典范，中国人忠君是假的，要么是害怕君主杀了我，要么是图君主给我高官厚禄。所以中国人搞不成君主立宪，是有道理的。前些年保守主义盛行，很多人都批评辛亥革命，认为辛亥革命不好，中国如果搞君主立宪就省掉很多麻烦，可以没有革命引起的那些动乱等等。但是中国能搞君主立宪吗？你看刘锡鸿和张德仪把中国人看透了，认为中国人没有忠君观念，所谓忠君严格来说是忠枪，有枪便是草头王。所以皇帝一旦手中没有了权力，就是墙倒众人推，什么汉献帝之类的，那些人日子多惨啊？

陈独秀把反爹看得比反专制还重要

那些能搞君主立宪的国家，都有个传统，这些国家的帝王，在传统时代的权力没有那么大，往往就是虚君。像日本的天皇在部分情况下没有什么实权，英国也是一样的，历史上大部分时期，国王不是虚君，但权力比中国的帝王小很多，只有在那种情况下君主立宪是有可能的，因为这些民族早就有尊重虚君的习惯了。

因此，刘锡鸿的说法是，英国人真的很忠君，又很孝顺。他还提到一件事，有一次他到英国一个公爵夫人家做客，那个公爵夫人跟他聊天，两个人谈了三个小时，公爵夫人的一个儿子是侯爵，一动不动在旁边站了三个小时，他很感动，英国人真是孝顺。其实这个侯爵已经有封地，不依赖父母，他父母也给不了他什么，而且英国法律也规定他是可以独立的，但是他还这么孝顺，可见是真的孝顺。这里讲的话是人之常情，一个人对另一个人是不是忠诚？是不是好？取决于这个人的自由选择，如果不是自由选择，基本上都是假的，被逼的忠绝不是真正的忠，被逼的孝也不是真正的孝。

五四新文化运动的时候，陈独秀这些人提倡个性解放，于是有些人就骂他们说颠覆中国传统文化，是反对孝道，给陈独秀扣了一顶“讨父仇孝”的帽子，说陈独秀仇恨孝道，挑拨父子关系。甚至有人说陈独秀鼓吹“万恶孝为首，百善淫为先”，大逆不道。

陈独秀写了一篇回复，他说我很欣赏孝道，我赞成子女和媳妇要尊重父母和翁姑，而且我也相信中国人是由衷地这么想的。既然中国人是这么想的，那么严厉的父权有什么必要保留呢？比如说，为什么我们要捍卫父要子死、子不得不死的这种权威呢？他说反过来讲，如果中国人的孝顺，并不是靠父亲可以杀了他来作为前提的，那废除了父权，怎么会影响孝顺呢？实际上，陈独秀这个逻辑跟张德仪、刘锡鸿是一样的。

当然我对陈独秀也有个批评，五四新文化运动，把反爹看的比反国家专制还要重要，这不对。中国历史上从来就没有什么父要子死子不得不死的安排，君要臣死臣不得不死倒是真的，皇上要杀任何人就可以杀，但是父亲随便杀儿子，首先皇帝是不干的。秦制的一个前提，就是剥夺了家长权，全国的人都必须爹亲娘亲不如秦始皇亲，为了秦始皇可以杀爹杀妈。但是陈独秀讲的那个道理，一点都不假。

提问：你刚才说中国在20世纪初搞不成虚君共和，但我觉得还是有可能的。

秦晖：刘锡鸿和张德仪的观察是不错的，中国历史上经常有改朝换代，而英国没有，英国人就是尊崇虚君。中国有没有人尊崇虚君？肯定有，即便皇上没权，一些死忠的人还是忠于他。如果大家都是这样的话，怎么可能改朝换代？假如说皇上的权力越变越小，老百姓还适应了这种状况，没什么权力的情况下大家仍然忠于他，当然是最好的安排。

20世纪初就很难说了。在晚清虽然大家都说搞立宪，但朝廷讲的立宪和立宪派所说完全不同。用现在学界的说法，朝廷希望搞日本式的立宪，而在野人士，包括反对革命的人士，主张的是英国式的立宪，这两个立宪是很难调和的。日本式的立宪就是天皇集权，明治维新，很多中国人认为那就是一场周秦之变，诸侯向天子归还权力。所以日本式的立宪，当然和立宪派讲的立宪相距甚远。不要以为当时双方都讲立宪，就可以谈妥，其内容是截然不同的。

贿选在理论上是搞不成的

提问：中国的民主化转型需要多长时间才能彻底完成？

秦晖：这个问题我没办法回答，我从来不做预测。历史从来不是被决定的，而是偶然的，某种意义上讲，文明的产生和进步都是小概率事件，假如你懂得一些理科，知道热力学第二定律的话，就会知道真正不以人们意志为转移的变化，都是趋向于退步的，都是趋向于所谓的混沌，即是无序的。所谓的进步，就是对熵增加的一种抗争，这些都是人们努力的结果。

历史的不确定性，恰恰为我们的行动赋予了意义。如果历史是确定的，我们现在做的事还有什么意义？如果民主是必然要到来的，我就睡一觉等着它到来，如果民主是必定不会到来的，那我们做的一切不是白搭？很多事情是我们努力了就有可能，不努力就没可能。

至于民众素质论，则是假命题，是陷入先有鸡还是先有蛋的争论。不管怎样，首先要讲你能够改变什么？比如制度可以改变，人种就很难改变，所以只能通过改变制度来提高素质，而不是通过改变素质去改变这些规则的安排，因为素质高低要有个判断标准。

几年前我去台湾恰逢五都选举，五都选举包括里长选举。在台中我碰到一位里长侯选人，他说，台湾人素质真低，一点信用都没有，我在那里给他们发了红包，他们都答应要选我，结果投票时都不选我。后来我就想，这些人如果“素质高”了，那民主可能搞得成吗？相对而言，民主是最不依靠素质的，因为所有人都是为自己投票的。所谓圣贤选民可能有，但是肯定很少，你不能指望一个国家的民众都是圣贤。所有民众投票都是为了自己，比如穷人愿意选择一个搞福利的，他需要有多高素质才能作出这样的判断呢？他完全从自己出发。

选举过程中有贿选的，有人就用一瓶酒就把你的票给买了，他用选票换一瓶酒，和用选票换一种有利于他的制度，这在素质上是没有区别的，都是一种自私的行为。穷人选择高福利不见得多么大公无私，而是从自己的需要去考虑。真正的区别在于，他相不相信这个选票有用。

假如我知道这个选举是真的，你给我酒我还是会喝，投不投你的票就是另当别论了，因为我“素质低”。贿选这个事，理论上是搞不成的，为什么呢？用经济学的角度讲，它有一个信息不对称的问题。我送给你一瓶酒我是知道的，但是我投没投你的票，你是不知道的，我完全可以喝你的酒，又不给你投票。你就算有权力查，也查不了那么多，所以贿选从来不是因为老百姓素质低造成的。（注：文章为秦晖于北京东书房大讲堂的发言，凤凰网主笔张弘整理）

Jeremy Geddes

Art » New Contemporary Art » Jeremy Geddes
http://artchival.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=newcontemporary&action=display&thread=3969

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Jeremy Geddes
Post by admin on Dec 8, 2009, 12:13am

Just discovered this artist last month. Loving this series of cosmonaut paintings...

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by peetov on Dec 8, 2009, 12:37am

wow. his stuff is awesome. i'm a big space nerd so this hits the spot.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by gildoinc on Dec 8, 2009, 12:57am

Nice find Sleep. I completely forgot about Gedes - Found his work years ago in Australia. The new work looks great. I'll try to find some older images and post.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by thinkspace on Dec 8, 2009, 4:27pm

Yeah, he's a monster. That collector I profiled a bit back, Gregg Spatz, on SH has a few of his works. Pretty much only does commissions as hit him up a couple times in the past for shows. SO good.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by admin on Dec 8, 2009, 6:24pm


Dec 8, 2009, 4:27pm, thinkspace wrote:

Yeah, he's a monster. That collector I profiled a bit back, Gregg Spatz, on SH has a few of his works. Pretty much only does commissions as hit him up a couple times in the past for shows. SO good.

how are his prices?

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by admin on Jan 16, 2010, 8:51pm

A study for a new series of paintings he is thinking of working on.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by bram on Jan 18, 2010, 7:42am

good God this bloke is talented. Love that study shown above.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by hahaajp on Jan 18, 2010, 12:53pm

I just discovered Jeremy's work a few weeks ago on expresso beans. Here's a picture of one of this prints framed which is not mine by the way.



I love it! I hope to see more from him this year, maybe even a solo show? I'm not sure where he's based or if he's done many shows in the past but I'd love to see his work in person.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by gilsteph on Jan 18, 2010, 3:22pm

Thanks for sharing! Very impressive!!!!!!

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by svenman on Jan 18, 2010, 3:49pm

fantastic artist. i thought the cosmonaut painting were beautifully rendered and love the context he set the figures within.
the new study looks fabulous. i wonder where he will take this next series of paintings? can't wait to see.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by thinkspace on Jan 18, 2010, 4:17pm

He's got a solo coming up in November in China I believe...

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by hahaajp on Jan 18, 2010, 4:24pm


Jan 18, 2010, 4:17pm, thinkspace wrote:

He's got a solo coming up in November in China I believe...

Interesting! I'd love to see what he comes up with.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by hillsj2001 on Jan 19, 2010, 3:50pm

i'm pretty sure he is based out of australia...i love his work too and hope to have something of his hanging on my wall soon

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by hillsj2001 on Jan 19, 2010, 3:56pm

some pics from the HK Venture show

http://arrestedmotion.com/2009/12/openings-hk-venture-part-ii-jeremy-geddes/

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by bigstrunso on Jan 19, 2010, 4:14pm



wow, where are those cosmonaut pieces hanging?

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by chetzar on Jan 19, 2010, 4:20pm

I absolutely love this guy's work. Thanks, Sleepboy, for turning me on to him. I have been talking to him through email (he's a very nice guy) and trying to help hook him up some shows in the US. I am dying to see his work in person.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by peetov on Jan 19, 2010, 5:40pm

his stuff is awesome. i just took my white cosmonaut print in today to get it framed. his prints look really nice.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by admin on Jan 20, 2010, 11:03am

I'm glad everyone likes his stuff. I need to look into how much his stuff costs...

Posted up an interview with him here if you are interested.

That's cool Chet, would love to see his work in person as well... Any word where he will be showing yet?

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by droow2 on Jan 20, 2010, 11:26am

I also heard something about him putting out a figure with 3A but not sure what happened with it, but I'd imagine it'd be pretty special...

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by chetzar on Jan 20, 2010, 12:51pm


Jan 20, 2010, 11:03am, admin wrote:

I'm glad everyone likes his stuff. I need to look into how much his stuff costs... Posted up an interview with him here if you are interested. That's cool Chet, would love to see his work in person as well... Any word where he will be showing yet?

I think he has some shows lined up in Hong Kong for now.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by gildoinc on Jan 20, 2010, 1:54pm

Well I finally found a Jeremy Geddes email from back in 2005 .

He had just had his second solo show at the Outre Gallery called the Mystery of Eilean Mor. The price range in 2005 was mostly in the $2000 - $2600 range with the title piece selling for $4000 and a couple of smaller pieces for $550. When I emailed the gallery in October everything was already sold.

Here is the copy from the show and some work highlights - enjoy:

"Outr� Gallery is proud to announce the long anticipated second solo exhibition of local painter JEREMY GEDDES. His first exhibition 慠eflex� two years ago was a sell out with paintings going to both local and international collectors with a taste for the dark, the gothic and the latently (and overtly) violent.

This exhibition of original paintings by Geddes are from his much anticipated Eilean Mor project.

The launch of "The Mystery of Eilean Mor", the new thrilling book of foreboding and mystery, is the result of a collaboration between Geddes and best selling Australian author Gary Crew.

The tale is one of a sea captain whose investigations into a mysterious lighthouse breeds thrilling suspense and wonder, as well as providing a moody premise for Geddes' luscious and dramatic studies of light and dark.

With an eye to traditional oil painting techniques, Jeremy's painting surfaces are a thing of wonder with rich, deep glazes that require dedication and patience to perfect. "

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by devours on Jan 20, 2010, 8:17pm

Before his Cosmonaut works, Jeremy had been too influenced by Phil Hale. Jeremy was just a bit more refined, but there had been some negativity about his art because of the similarity. Now he seems to moving on with his tonal works that are really showcasing his talent and individual expression. It was not until Ashley Wood commissioned him to do 'Heat Death' last year that his Cosmo pieces have really started to draw a strong following. His prints are a beautiful quality, and there is much anticipation for his figure with 3A for 2010. It is wonderful that he is gaining such attention.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by hellosir on Jan 21, 2010, 11:19am

I have just recently heard back from him, and he has shows lined up in HK and the price range know runs from 1-10k AUS$ so you guys in the UK can get quite a discount on the exchange. Also he currently has no paintings available for sale. Sounds like his last show went well, hopefully his success will continue.


oh and I don't know where I saw it but "the cafe" looks phenomenal

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by greenhorn1 on Jan 26, 2010, 9:25am

"the cafe" print will be released this wednesday on his site. ($160AUD). I really like this one, although it has a very disturbing vibe to it. I wish I could see some of his originals in person.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by epicfai on Jan 26, 2010, 10:56am


Jan 21, 2010, 11:19am, hellosir wrote:

I have just recently heard back from him, and he has shows lined up in HK and the price range know runs from 1-10k AUS$ so you guys in the UK can get quite a discount on the exchange. Also he currently has no paintings available for sale. Sounds like his last show went well, hopefully his success will continue. oh and I don't know where I saw it but "the cafe" looks phenomenal

should be a great print.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wA0i0HAsO5Q/S1....h/cafe+copy.jpg

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by admin on Jan 27, 2010, 11:44am

Here's a pic of the print.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by shawnlow on Feb 8, 2010, 7:01pm

Surprised it took so long for Jeremy to get listed/mentioned here!

He's based in Melbourne and is really talented.

Only issue is that Jeremy's a perfectionist! He labours over a painting for a long time. There was a piece that looked perfect to me but just sat in his studio for a couple of years...Jeremy told me that he passed the piece to Ash Wood! See below for more on Ash and Jeremy.

He doesn't show with galleries and sells direct to 'fans'.

I live locally and have been lucky enough to have bought some pieces and also visited his studio. There won't be a shortage of paintings for sale...you just need to be patient (his last large batch of Cosmonaut paintings sold two+ years ago) and you also need to beat Ashley Wood.

Believe it or not, Ash owns MOST (I'd say 90%) of Jeremy's larger paintings. That last Heat Deat piece was an Ash Wood 'commission'. Oh well. They're friends so I guess that Ash has dibs!

Some pieces I own are here:

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryRoom.asp?Order=Date&Page=1&GSub=52568

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by admin on Feb 21, 2010, 3:08pm

A couple more studies. So many before he paints the actual one. Must be a perfectionist.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by spenie on Feb 22, 2010, 2:35pm

Love the White Cosmonaut print, keep going back to his site to have another look. I think i'll pick one up next week. Not to keen on Cafe, not sure how much enjoyment i'd get having that on my wall.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by hellosir on Feb 22, 2010, 2:53pm

I did the same thing with the white cosmonaut. I went back to the site for about 2 weeks and kept looking at it and finally got it, and am now debating on whether I should have gotten the large version. Which size are you looking at getting?

Has anyone opted for the Large version?

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by spenie on Feb 22, 2010, 2:58pm


Feb 22, 2010, 2:53pm, hellosir wrote:

I did the same thing with the white cosmonaut. I went back to the site for about 2 weeks and kept looking at it and finally got it, and am now debating on whether I should have gotten the large version. Which size are you looking at getting? Has anyone opted for the Large version?

Just the standard size for me, framed up it will still be a good size.
My ceilings aren't high enough to carry off a large framed piece like that.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by soph on Feb 25, 2010, 6:49am

the large white cosmonaut is pretty big - but is very beautiful. The print has a really lovely softness to it - and despite being double the size of the original painting the detail and quality is remarkable (you can see the odd hair that's was trapped in the original painting!!)

That said - framing a print of that size is pretty pricey - and as Spenie pointed out - you do need a place with high ceilings to give it the space it needs

In terms of shows - he's currently working toward a show in HK in April 2011 with Ashley Wood. So everything is being saved for that.

We're planning a little sale of paintings from a comic that he was working on (but has since decided not to pursue). So if you want a small and affordable little original  we'll be sending an email out to our contact list in March.

And yes - early on Phil Hale was a big inflence, more from a techinal perspective - but he's definitely found his "own voice" in recent years 

I hope this answers some of your questions - if you have anything specific - fire away (and if it gets too technical I'll pester jem for answers)

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by hellosir on Feb 25, 2010, 7:36am

Hey Soph

Welcome to the board!

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by greenhorn1 on Feb 25, 2010, 8:49am


Feb 25, 2010, 6:49am, soph wrote:

We're planning a little sale of paintings from a comic that he was working on (but has since decided not to pursue). So if you want a small and affordable little original  we'll be sending an email out to our contact list in March.

 looking forward to that. I just placed my order for the heat death print after seeing you mention there were only a few copies left.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by svenman on Feb 25, 2010, 3:56pm

welcome soph 

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by spenie on Feb 27, 2010, 7:23pm

Just purchased the standard size, would hate to miss out on this.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by epicfai on Feb 28, 2010, 2:08am


Feb 25, 2010, 8:49am, greenhorn1 wrote:

Feb 25, 2010, 6:49am, soph wrote: We're planning a little sale of paintings from a comic that he was working on (but has since decided not to pursue). So if you want a small and affordable little original  we'll be sending an email out to our contact list in March.  looking forward to that. I just placed my order for the heat death print after seeing you mention there were only a few copies left.

Sold out now.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by peetov on Mar 7, 2010, 6:05pm

he currently has a postcard up on ebay as part of the brownstones to red dirt art benefit



http://cgi.ebay.com/Brownstones-to-Red-D....=item3efd5f882d

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by svenman on Mar 7, 2010, 6:57pm

holy shit, that's been bid up high already

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by peetov on Mar 7, 2010, 9:51pm

yeah i was quite surprised myself. my chances were shot pretty quickly.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by epicfai on Mar 8, 2010, 2:44am

yeah, was watching that as well. shot right through the roof! 

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by spenie on Mar 11, 2010, 5:05pm

Comic panels up now, for those interested.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by droow2 on Mar 11, 2010, 5:10pm

some nice small pieces for sale on Jeremy's blog...

http://jgsales.blogspot.com/

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by peetov on Mar 11, 2010, 5:38pm

i managed to grab one. super pumped.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by spenie on Mar 11, 2010, 5:43pm

Well done Peetov, which one did you go for?

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by peetov on Mar 11, 2010, 5:47pm

i had scoped them all out in his blog beforehand and decided on this one.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by spenie on Mar 11, 2010, 5:50pm

Congratulations. Nice choice.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by panditha676 on Mar 11, 2010, 7:24pm

glad to see another artist focusing on the dying art of academic art.  cannot wait to own one of his works

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by steveinca on Mar 11, 2010, 10:13pm

Someone with this much talent has the ability to go as far as they desire with their craft. Amazing work....

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by hellosir on Mar 12, 2010, 6:17am

Yeah I really liked that he sold them out in an hour. And the best part from Soph, Hopefully we can have another one of these again soon!

What a great artist all around. Congrats to all that got what they were looking for.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by droow2 on Mar 12, 2010, 12:44pm


Mar 12, 2010, 6:17am, hellosir wrote:

Yeah I really liked that he sold them out in an hour.

 More like 30 seconds! I fired off a prewritten email at 10pm uk on the dot and they'd all gone!!

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by hellosir on Mar 12, 2010, 1:20pm

Yeah it must have been faster than an hour. I just noticed that Soph sent out the all sold recap after an hour. Sorry you missed out. I was teetering over the wake up piece and sounds like I would have missed it anyhow.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by peetov on Mar 12, 2010, 4:10pm


Mar 12, 2010, 12:44pm, droow2 wrote:

More like 30 seconds! I fired off a prewritten email at 10pm uk on the dot and they'd all gone!!

this makes me feel really lucky.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by droow2 on Mar 12, 2010, 4:41pm


Mar 12, 2010, 4:10pm, peetov wrote:

Mar 12, 2010, 12:44pm, droow2 wrote:  More like 30 seconds! I fired off a prewritten email at 10pm uk on the dot and they'd all gone!! this makes me feel really lucky.

Congrats matey! Great score!

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by epicfai on Mar 13, 2010, 8:44pm

congrats to whoever scored the piece in the ebay charity auction. i actually liked that piece a lot as it ties in nicely with his recent work. final sale price was $910 towards charity. 

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by thecreep on Mar 15, 2010, 1:46pm


Mar 11, 2010, 7:24pm, panditha676 wrote:

glad to see another artist focusing on the dying art of academic art.  cannot wait to own one of his works

I agree. While there are not many artists focusing on academic styled works, the ones who are are simply amazing.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by epicfai on Mar 18, 2010, 7:19am

Jeremy Geddes OG comic panel on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ORIGINAL-JEREMY-GEDD.... item4a9f6acad7

(FYI - I am not the seller)

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by ken on Mar 18, 2010, 5:17pm

Is that one from the recent release?

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by epicfai on Mar 18, 2010, 6:24pm

I don't think so. I don't recall seeing this one in that release.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by droow2 on Mar 19, 2010, 3:20am

No, it says on the listing he bought it last year. It's from the same set of paintings though

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by admin on May 2, 2010, 9:41pm

A new mini painting.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by peetov on May 4, 2010, 12:38am

i love it

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by planetzog on May 4, 2010, 1:10pm

Awesome. Is it for sale?
I've checked Jeremy's site but it's only got a small mention in his blog.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by lowpro on May 4, 2010, 1:46pm

This piece is for his HK show next year. He will be doing a number of these smaller works to compliment the larger paintings. Cannot wait to see this body of work in it's totality..and am really hoping to be afforded the opportunity at a cosmonaut piece.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by hillsj2001 on May 4, 2010, 3:26pm

top 5 artist for me

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by peetov on May 7, 2010, 12:56am

an in progress shot of 'cluster'

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by spenie on May 8, 2010, 4:31pm

Looking good, would love to score that OG.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by suckerpunch on May 11, 2010, 1:39pm

The man is a GENIUS...

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by wakd on May 25, 2010, 7:47pm

A print of the new small white cosmonaut is now available on Jeremy's website. Edition of 200. Mine is on its way.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by epicfai on May 26, 2010, 3:00am

Small white cosmonaut - edition of 200 - is already 92% sold out according to Jem's blog. Freeway is also now sold out, Alley is almost sold out. Seems more and more people are starting to discover his work - definitely well deserved success!

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by katrin on May 26, 2010, 5:49am

Thanks for the updates. Just purchased "Alley" and "There is Glory in Our Failure" before I am going to regret not pulling the trigger fast enough. Liked his work from the first posts here (although it is actually very different from what I am collecting), but there was always something else on my list.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by droow2 on May 26, 2010, 12:14pm

Small white cosmonaut's sold out! 

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by suckerpunch on May 26, 2010, 1:58pm

Wow they went quick.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by planetzog on May 26, 2010, 2:27pm

I'm not surprised. It's an awesome print.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by chadley on May 26, 2010, 6:30pm

I was so conflicted about getting one, his art looks like it has some amazing potential.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by epicfai on Jun 7, 2010, 11:50pm

Looks like the little cosmonaut OG is on sale in Beijing in a couple of weeks!



http://jeremygeddesart.blogspot.com/2010/06/show-updates.html

also there will be some large format Heat Deaths available for attendees only! any board members in beijing?



And news of a big show late 2011 in an as of yet undisclosed location!

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by epicfai on Jul 21, 2010, 4:46pm

Alley print is Sold Out.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by thomasmd on Oct 20, 2010, 3:12pm

Heard he has a show in New York on 2012....:)

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by rhythmgtr5 on Oct 20, 2010, 3:43pm


Oct 20, 2010, 3:12pm, thomasmd wrote:

Heard he has a show in New York on 2012....:)

From his blog:

"The next exhibition is firming up, both Ashley Wood and I will be having a show in NY at Jonathan Levine in 2012. Should be great - more info to come!"

I can't wait 

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by thomasmd on Oct 20, 2010, 3:49pm

hmmmmm, any idea how much would be an "average" sized OG piece from him........? Anyone??

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by hellosir on Oct 20, 2010, 3:50pm

Yup i'm sure it will be fantastic. Showing with Ashley Wood as well should really let him show his talents. I feel they have a chemistry together.

Weekender when I contacted about a commission I was told prices vary for originals depending on time spent and size. A smaller piece was quoted 1-2k and larger pieces 10-20k. I'm pretty sure those are in $ AU, plus I assume that the prices will rise a bit now with a gallery show rather than buying from him directly. It will be fun to see how things develop

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by thomasmd on Oct 26, 2010, 4:12am


Oct 20, 2010, 3:50pm, hellosir wrote:

Yup i'm sure it will be fantastic. Showing with Ashley Wood as well should really let him show his talents. I feel they have a chemistry together. Weekender when I contacted about a commission I was told prices vary for originals depending on time spent and size. A smaller piece was quoted 1-2k and larger pieces 10-20k. I'm pretty sure those are in $ AU, plus I assume that the prices will rise a bit now with a gallery show rather than buying from him directly. It will be fun to see how things develop

I wonder how much prices would be by 2012...Geeez! Any idea what size would fit in the 10-15K range? 

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by thomasmd on Oct 26, 2010, 4:45am

From His Blog:
http://jeremygeddesart.blogspot.com


".....Bavarian State Opera Posters cosmonaut paintings to promote their new season.."

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by katrin on Oct 26, 2010, 6:38am

I am just trying to figure out how to get these posters. Will keep you updated in case anyone wants one, too.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by thomasmd on Oct 26, 2010, 6:42am

Im in ! Please get me one   

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by greenhorn1 on Oct 26, 2010, 8:05am

I'd definitely be interested too if you manage to get any extra copies. I'm not sure if those are promotional giveaway type things or more advertisments to hang (in which case they might be harder to come by).

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by hellosir on Oct 26, 2010, 12:22pm

Great for Jeremy. It's always interesting to see where this stuff gets picked up. but I am more interested to know what the next print will be?

From the blog posting

Quote:

Our next print should be ready in November. I'll post more details soon.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by greenhorn1 on Oct 26, 2010, 12:47pm

I know he said the print of the final cluster painting would be ready before the end of the year but I'm really hoping the next print is the cosmanaut in the street (not sure of title)

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by hellosir on Oct 26, 2010, 1:31pm


Oct 26, 2010, 12:47pm, greenhorn1 wrote:

I know he said the print of the final cluster painting would be ready before the end of the year but I'm really hoping the next print is the cosmanaut in the street (not sure of title)

This one?

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by greenhorn1 on Oct 26, 2010, 1:55pm

That's the one.  fingers crossed.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by greenhorn1 on Nov 3, 2010, 9:40am

final version of "the street" posted on his blog.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by rhythmgtr5 on Nov 3, 2010, 11:42am



It has come a long way since the study imo. Love the detail

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by hellosir on Nov 3, 2010, 12:00pm


Nov 3, 2010, 11:42am, rhythmgtr5 wrote:

Side by side comparison It has come a long way since the study imo. Love the detail

Absolutely, the pigeon and the tiled building have really added to it

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by madbaki on Dec 8, 2010, 10:35pm

For those that are interested, the new "Street" print is up. Go get'em 

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by suckerpunch on Dec 22, 2010, 6:36pm

Has anybody who bought one of these have you had yours delivered yet? just wondering?

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by peetov on Dec 22, 2010, 6:39pm

nopers. should be soon i would think.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by suckerpunch on Dec 22, 2010, 6:54pm

Cheers, mine was sent out ages ago , well seems to be any way, must be the crap weather for the delay.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by shawnlow on Jan 25, 2011, 7:12am


Dec 22, 2010, 6:36pm, suckerpunch wrote:

Has anybody who bought one of these have you had yours delivered yet? just wondering?

I live local to Jeremy and they were busy over Christmas and the New Year. Soph dropped off the large Street Artist Proof print last week. You should be getting yours soon!

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by katrin on Jan 25, 2011, 12:28pm


Dec 22, 2010, 6:36pm, suckerpunch wrote:

Has anybody who bought one of these have you had yours delivered yet? just wondering?

I purchased the regular version and received it on Dec. 24 (I think it was posted 10 or 12 days before). If you have not gotten yours by now, maybe contact Soph? They should be able to track your parcel.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by rubberneck on Jan 30, 2011, 3:05am

Jeremy Geddes prints advertising the Bavarian State Opera 2010-2011 season, turned up this morning:





Nice to see these as large size prints, since I can't get these as artist prints at present:






And just because its such a fantastic print no matter how its composed or cropped:








This one got a bit dinged in the bottom left hand corner, but since they are only posters, I'm not too upset...

All will be rotated in a frame over time.... :clap:

Vielen Dank to the Bavarian State Opera front office!

5 of these prints are now available on their site:

http://www.bayerische.staatsoper.de/858-....p~overview.html

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by thomasmd on Jan 30, 2011, 4:39am

Thanks for the info rubberneck! What is the size of the poster?

Cheers!

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by katrin on Jan 30, 2011, 11:58am

Size is DIN A1, so that's about 59x84 cm (23x33 inch).
Good from them putting the posters officially in the store, as they must have gotten a lot of requests. Mine are also already here 

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by epicfai on Feb 12, 2011, 3:05pm

New interview with Jeremy posted over at Coates and Scarry.
http://coatesandscarry.com/jeremy-geddes/

including this teaser picture of Jeremy at work on something new!


is that a horse or a dog that i see? 

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by lowpro on Feb 12, 2011, 3:38pm

Thanks for that. Found these last couple interesting..

Q: What do you believe art does for the world?
Hmm, for the world? Nothing, it is merely a consumer of resources like most other human activity. For people, I guess at best it can contribute to a cultural conversation. It can, possibly alter people抯 perceptions of the world around them, although, however much I like to think otherwise, I suspect only slightly and for a very limited time.

Q: What kind of legacy would you like to leave?
It抯 not something I really think about too often. I抦 not entirely convinced that our species has a long future ahead of it. Being remembered isn抰 something that keeps me up at night. If I can touch or make some honest contact with a persons intellect or emotion through my paintings for even a short time then I抦 happy enough.


Some brutally honest, if depressing, responses that I actually appreciate and find insightful to hear from an artist's perspective..even if the questions themselves were loaded.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by epicfai on Feb 12, 2011, 3:49pm

ditto, walt. i also found this tidbit interesting:

"I grew in up in Geelong, a small town outside Melbourne. It抯 a flat industrial place. I grew up near a cement factory which would coat the surrounding houses in a dull grey pall, and which formed the bones of the painting 憈here is glory�."


'there is glory in our failure', oil on linen, 2007

it's always interesting to me how an artist's environment and background informs their work. personally, i've always found this to be one of his most haunting images. the print is also really stunning with incredibly rich, dark blacks contrasting against the gray sky.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by epicfai on Feb 12, 2011, 10:57pm

Another interview from earlier in the year via Locomotive:
http://locomotive.tumblr.com/post/2735051742/jeremy-geddes-interview

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by epicfai on Feb 15, 2011, 11:40pm

New Geddes work, 'Adrift'






here's a shot of Adrift being boxed up for the trip to Roq La Rue for the Hi Fructose group show. (the piece is already sold btw)

A print will also be released.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by admin on Feb 16, 2011, 12:18am

Stunning.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by madbaki on Feb 16, 2011, 2:57am

This print is a must. Going to look great next to "Redemption". I wonder what the size is going to be?

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by svenman on Feb 16, 2011, 4:02am

wonderful piece. did you grab it epic?

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by peetov on Feb 16, 2011, 4:12am

i hope it's sold to me and i just don't know about it yet. 8(

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by lowpro on Feb 16, 2011, 7:18am

Truly brilliant!

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by sal on Feb 16, 2011, 7:54am

this the time is coming for my first Geddes print.. this is just wonderful..

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by greenhorn1 on Feb 16, 2011, 8:38am


Feb 16, 2011, 4:12am, peetov wrote:

i hope it's sold to me and i just don't know about it yet. 8(

heh. me too but I don't think I got on the list anywhere near early enough. I think I only wrote them a little over a month ago.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by rhythmgtr5 on Feb 16, 2011, 9:09am

Love this piece. Add me to the list of those who are hoping they got on the list early enough 

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by jake on Feb 16, 2011, 9:52am

I really want to see one of Geddes originals in the flesh - the photos always make them look so detailed and stunning.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by epicfai on Feb 16, 2011, 3:10pm


Feb 16, 2011, 4:02am, svenman wrote:

wonderful piece. did you grab it epic?

I wish! Nope, not mine. Contacted Kirsten but it is already spoken for. I honestly didnt expect a new original to appear at this show and be for sale, so i was waaay too late in inquiring. That's OK though, my 2011 art budget is pretty much already committed. I'm on the list for the 2012 JLG show, however, and will be hoping to get a shot then.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by lowpro on Feb 16, 2011, 3:27pm


Feb 16, 2011, 3:10pm, epicfai wrote:

Feb 16, 2011, 4:02am, svenman wrote: wonderful piece. did you grab it epic? I wish! Nope, not mine. Contacted Kirsten but it is already spoken for. I honestly didnt expect a new original to appear at this show and be for sale, so i was waaay too late in inquiring. That's OK though, my 2011 art budget is pretty much already committed. I'm on the list for the 2012 JLG show, however, and will be hoping to get a shot then.

Snap. Hoped you managed to luck out and snag this, Alex. I too was hugely surprised to see his name pop up in the lineup at all..and am now even more surprised to see that it's a fully fleshed out painting, let alone a Cosmonaut piece. I reached out to Kirsten the moment I noticed this show on her site in mid Jan sometime, seemingly before the news of this amazing show had begun to circulate. Thought I might've had a chance had it been a first come first serve deal, but never heard back. I assumed all along it wasn't ever going to be made publicly available and probably would be reserved to one of her best clients, as should be the case to an extent. His output really is so low and slow, with demand mounting bigtime, it's gonna be crazy by next year and I'm really not holding out much hope at all.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by rhythmgtr5 on Feb 16, 2011, 3:36pm


Feb 16, 2011, 3:27pm, lowpro wrote:

Feb 16, 2011, 3:10pm, epicfai wrote: I wish! Nope, not mine. Contacted Kirsten but it is already spoken for. I honestly didnt expect a new original to appear at this show and be for sale, so i was waaay too late in inquiring. That's OK though, my 2011 art budget is pretty much already committed. I'm on the list for the 2012 JLG show, however, and will be hoping to get a shot then. Snap. Hoped you managed to luck out and snag this, Alex. I too was hugely surprised to see his name pop up in the lineup at all..and am now even more surprised to see that it's a fully fleshed out painting, let alone a Cosmonaut piece. I reached out to Kirsten the moment I noticed this show on her site in mid Jan sometime, seemingly before the news of this amazing show had begun to circulate. Thought I might've had a chance had it been a first come first serve deal, but never heard back. I assumed all along it wasn't ever going to be made publicly available and probably would be reserved to one of her best clients, as should be the case to an extent. His output really is so low and slow, with demand mounting bigtime, it's gonna be crazy by next year and I'm really not holding out much hope at all.

This pretty much sums it up for me as well. Needless to say I'm heartbroken.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by epicfai on Feb 16, 2011, 3:56pm


Feb 16, 2011, 3:27pm, lowpro wrote:

Feb 16, 2011, 3:10pm, epicfai wrote: I wish! Nope, not mine. Contacted Kirsten but it is already spoken for. I honestly didnt expect a new original to appear at this show and be for sale, so i was waaay too late in inquiring. That's OK though, my 2011 art budget is pretty much already committed. I'm on the list for the 2012 JLG show, however, and will be hoping to get a shot then. Snap. Hoped you managed to luck out and snag this, Alex. I too was hugely surprised to see his name pop up in the lineup at all..and am now even more surprised to see that it's a fully fleshed out painting, let alone a Cosmonaut piece. I reached out to Kirsten the moment I noticed this show on her site in mid Jan sometime, seemingly before the news of this amazing show had begun to circulate. Thought I might've had a chance had it been a first come first serve deal, but never heard back. I assumed all along it wasn't ever going to be made publicly available and probably would be reserved to one of her best clients, as should be the case to an extent. His output really is so low and slow, with demand mounting bigtime, it's gonna be crazy by next year and I'm really not holding out much hope at all.

thanks, walt. i think you're right on regarding his debut US solo show. odds of getting a piece will likely be slim. it will certainly be one of the most anticipated shows of that year! i also shudder to think at how his pieces will likely be priced as well. 

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by pluton on Feb 17, 2011, 9:22am

Really can't wait for this print! I hope its sold online and not only at the show.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by katrin on Feb 17, 2011, 9:56am


Feb 17, 2011, 9:22am, pluton wrote:

Really can't wait for this print! I hope its sold online and not only at the show.

Me too! And I hope they send out a mail some time before the print goes online. I missed out on the Cluster mini print release because I was not online then.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by pricklypete on Feb 17, 2011, 7:52pm

What month is his show in 2012? I'm definitely saving up for that one. I got on the list late 2010...I'm hoping I'm on there in time for something. I've never managed to buy anything from JLG. If I have the $$$ for something,the show is sold out and I'm nowhere on the list or there is something I want and the money isn't there 

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by madbaki on May 10, 2011, 6:52am

My mind is blown 

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by droow2 on May 10, 2011, 7:17am

Second that!!

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by svenman on May 10, 2011, 7:48am

he has a magnificent grasp of illuminating his paintings.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by rhythmgtr5 on May 10, 2011, 9:54am

Incredible. I was wondering which direction he would move in after the cosmonauts. I'm really liking this.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by admin on May 10, 2011, 9:59am

amazing!

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by spenie on May 10, 2011, 10:13am

Amazing painting, I wounder if he takes any influence from the works by Vermeer?

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by planetzog on May 10, 2011, 1:49pm

Absolutely stunning, would love this as a print.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by spenie on May 10, 2011, 2:33pm


May 10, 2011, 1:49pm, planetzog wrote:

Absolutely stunning, would love this as a print.

Looks like it will be.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by sal on May 10, 2011, 4:46pm

Im usually more eloquent, but I can't think of anything else but WOW for this one..

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by hellosir on May 11, 2011, 8:42am

I saw this to be extremely interesting. Today on FB Jeremy has 220 new friends, which I don't know if it's a direct relationship to this most recent painting, but I think so. Still blown away by this one

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by droow2 on May 11, 2011, 1:08pm

A nice closeup...

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by floatingtrees on May 16, 2011, 7:06pm

Red Cosmo is sold out



version I found on ebay:

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by habit333 on May 16, 2011, 10:57pm

I like Red Cosmo, and thought about buying, but I just never saw it getting framed and going up on my wall - Adrift is the only print I bought from Jeremy, though I've followed his work for a while and would love to own and original some day. Either way, I'm glad people are buying the prints and supporting his art!

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by hellosir on May 17, 2011, 6:56am

Cafe is sold out as well, as his entire print catalog.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by droow2 on May 18, 2011, 5:28pm

Finally got these on the wall.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by sal on May 18, 2011, 7:07pm

^ they look great together like that.. nice composition!

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by floatingtrees on May 18, 2011, 8:02pm


May 18, 2011, 5:28pm, droow2 wrote:

Finally got these on the wall.

Awesome, it would be cool to see a close up pick of your Cosmonaut I AP. Here's a few shots of my Cosmonaut III AP (all we need is Suckerpunch to post his Cosmonaut IV AP ).



close-up

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by droow2 on May 18, 2011, 8:36pm

there you go bud, I'll get a closer one tomorrow.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by floatingtrees on May 18, 2011, 8:59pm

^ Thanks, looks beautiful!

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by droow2 on May 19, 2011, 12:44pm

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by roseproto on May 20, 2011, 12:22am


May 10, 2011, 6:52am, madbaki wrote:

My mind is blown

Fingers crossed for my third Geddes...

Looks absolutely amazing.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by katrin on May 26, 2011, 4:55am

According to his blog, a print of A Perfect Vacuum will be available soon 

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by chadley on May 26, 2011, 9:35am

I think this will be my first Geddes.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by floatingtrees on May 26, 2011, 1:09pm


May 26, 2011, 4:55am, katrin wrote:

According to his blog, a print of A Perfect Vacuum will be available soon

Yay! 

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by troom on May 29, 2011, 4:22pm

"A Perfect Vacuum" sold out before I could get the site to open.

Good time to hang the others sitting on the floor of the living room.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by dasher12 on May 30, 2011, 11:01am

^^ I got refunded. This is the first Geddes I missed in a long time. Congrats to Jem though!

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by murdock on Aug 15, 2011, 6:30am

I guess it's time to show some framework on that APV, so here goes:

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by epicfai on Sept 29, 2011, 2:31am

something new.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by peetov on Sept 29, 2011, 3:21am

insanely awesome as always

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by murdock on Sept 29, 2011, 4:37am

Love everything in that work except the cosmo and the dove. Looking forward to the "future work" he spoke of on his blog:


Quote:

This is a small and fast (for me) painting, measuring at 37 * 58 cm. It doesn't have the detail of my large paintings due to it's size, but I think the brushwork at the micro level is perhaps some of the best I've done. It is also one of the last cosmonaut paintings I'm planning on producing (there's one or two more in the pipeline), although future work should be evolution of those themes, rather than a radical departure.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by rhythmgtr5 on Sept 29, 2011, 8:01am

Looks great. Would love to see a larger version to enjoy all the details

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by fnord on Sept 29, 2011, 11:10am

I can't wait to see his work next year at JLG.
He's announced on his blog that this painting will be turned in to a timed release print.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by hellosir on Sept 30, 2011, 1:51am


Sept 29, 2011, 4:37am, murdock wrote:

Love everything in that work except the cosmo and the dove. Looking forward to the "future work" he spoke of on his blog: Quote: This is a small and fast (for me) painting, measuring at 37 * 58 cm. It doesn't have the detail of my large paintings due to it's size, but I think the brushwork at the micro level is perhaps some of the best I've done. It is also one of the last cosmonaut paintings I'm planning on producing (there's one or two more in the pipeline), although future work should be evolution of those themes, rather than a radical departure.

I have to agree with murdock, when Soph emailed this to me, I first saw it on my phone and scrolled down to the bottom of the image and saw the cosmonaut and dove and was immediately disappointed. Absolutely love the warmth of the lighting but those two just feel placed oddly, maybe he did this on purpose but still what an amazing talent

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by voleboy on Sept 30, 2011, 6:58am

I don't like it. I missed Adrift by 1 hour as they didn't release the time, and I got fed up of waiting around and had to go to bed. I had a family commitment for APV where there was no way of getting to the web. The irony is this will be easier to get, but doesn't do anything for me.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by katrin on Oct 9, 2011, 12:04pm

I could not find this posted elsewhere on the forum, so here is the info from Jeremy's blog about the timed release of his new print:

This will go online in 3 hours!!!

"Warmer Air will be available on Monday 10th October from 7am to 7pm Melbourne, Australia time (approximately).

For Warmer Air we抳e decided to do a timed release. This means you can purchase the print at any time during the 12 hour window and the number of prints sold in this time will be the edition size. Once the 12 hours is up the print is no longer available.

As a guide, the start time is Sunday 9th October 4pm in New York, Sunday 1pm in San Francisco and Sunday 9pm in London going into the morning of Monday 10th October. But please check your time zones.

The print will be available here on our website: http://www.jeremygeddesart.com/popups/warmerairp.html

Please note, the purchase button will be uploaded when the print is available (our Monday morning and everyone else抯 Sunday afternoon/evening), and will appear in the top right corner.

Some details about the print:

Warmer Air is 40cm wide and 61cm long. The image itself is 35cm by 55cm, almost the same size as the original painting.

It is $120AU and the price includes packing and postage ($117US by today抯 exchange rate)

We anticipate mailing out may take several weeks, so please be patient."

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by astrogirl on Oct 9, 2011, 3:25pm

got it - went smooth!

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by sal on Oct 9, 2011, 6:40pm

a teaser for everyone who got one / is still considering getting one:

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by murdock on Oct 10, 2011, 3:34am

Wow. That's actually the *best* pic of this print I've seen so far!
Thanks for posting.

(Still not my cup of tea, but probably very nice in the flesh)

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by sal on Oct 10, 2011, 5:14am

The timed release is now closed.

The edition number is 840.

This was our first timed release print and we're really delighted (plus a little overwhelmed).

Thanks to everyone who bought a print and to all the folks on the forums who talked us into doing it in the first place! It's been an amazing day and something we'll definitely do again.

from Jeremy Geddess website..

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by shine166 on Oct 10, 2011, 5:37am

I am beyond hopeless ! Looks like my Geddes wait will have to continue

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by svenman on Oct 10, 2011, 7:09am

that's an impressive edition size.

looks like his popularity has grown massively in the last year or so.
i recall all those prints being sat on his web store when i went to buy a bunch.
i got the cosmonaught set and alley, but my paypal account froze and wouldn't let me complete on heat death and the one with the bridge.

sorry that i never got to pick up that heat death print. such a great image. what were they editions of 60 or something?

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by svenman on Oct 10, 2011, 7:15am


Jan 20, 2010, 11:26am, droow2 wrote:

I also heard something about him putting out a figure with 3A but not sure what happened with it, but I'd imagine it'd be pretty special...

does anyone know if this is still on the cards?

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by voleboy on Oct 10, 2011, 7:40am


Oct 10, 2011, 7:09am, svenman wrote:

that's an impressive edition size. looks like his popularity has grown massively in the last year or so. i recall all those prints being sat on his web store when i went to buy a bunch. i got the cosmonaught set and alley, but my paypal account froze and wouldn't let me complete on heat death and the one with the bridge. sorry that i never got to pick up that heat death print. such a great image. what were they editions of 60 or something?

I remember them being sat there for ages too. I knew in my heart of hearts they were too good, and too cheap to stay there forever, but only pulled my finger out for Red Cosmo.

All of a sudden everyone caught on, and it's been mad ever since. Happy they sold so many. I didn't buy one as the image doesn't do much for me.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by sal on Oct 10, 2011, 8:49am


Oct 10, 2011, 7:40am, voleboy wrote:

Oct 10, 2011, 7:09am, svenman wrote: i recall all those prints being sat on his web store when i went to buy a bunch. I remember them being sat there for ages too. I knew in my heart of hearts they were too good, and too cheap to stay there forever, but only pulled my finger out for Red Cosmo.

I also remember thinking whether to get Red Cosmo or not, and I ended up buying other things than (which I dont regret).. but I do wish I was trusting my guts a bit more, and got that one.. still probably my fav image I saw from him...

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by katrin on Oct 10, 2011, 8:58am

Same here...when I first saw the prints in his store (thanks to this forum), every single one of them was still for sale and sat there for months or maybe even a year. I fully regret not buying all of them back then. At least I got Alley, There is Glory in our Failure, The Street and now Warmer Air.
I think Alley, There is Glory in our Failure and Freeway were the most limited editions at 60 each.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by shine166 on Oct 10, 2011, 12:40pm

completely messed up on this one, I thought the window was a week... not 12 hours

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by epicfai on Oct 10, 2011, 12:48pm


Oct 10, 2011, 7:40am, voleboy wrote:

Oct 10, 2011, 7:09am, svenman wrote: that's an impressive edition size. looks like his popularity has grown massively in the last year or so. i recall all those prints being sat on his web store when i went to buy a bunch. i got the cosmonaught set and alley, but my paypal account froze and wouldn't let me complete on heat death and the one with the bridge. sorry that i never got to pick up that heat death print. such a great image. what were they editions of 60 or something? I remember them being sat there for ages too. I knew in my heart of hearts they were too good, and too cheap to stay there forever, but only pulled my finger out for Red Cosmo. All of a sudden everyone caught on, and it's been mad ever since. Happy they sold so many. I didn't buy one as the image doesn't do much for me.

yep, remember this well. i actually bought all of them except for heat death from the website. got my heat death in a trade from a fellow board member (thanks!)

passed on warmer air myself as i dont find the image to be personally compelling but i do really admire the technical virtuosity demonstrated in all of his works.

congrats to jeremy on a great open run! still holding out hope for a piece from levine.... being in the 30s on the waitlist likely means zero chance for me though! 

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by sal on Oct 10, 2011, 12:59pm


Oct 10, 2011, 12:40pm, shine166 wrote:

completely messed up on this one, I thought the window was a week... not 12 hours

ouch!.. you did mess it up my friend  ...

but dont worry too much, there will be plenty available, and cause of that I dont think the price will be significantly bigger..

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by shine166 on Oct 10, 2011, 1:24pm

True, its probably for the best anyway... these things usually happen for a reason

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by pricklypete on Oct 10, 2011, 1:51pm


Oct 10, 2011, 12:48pm, epicfai wrote:

[quote author=voleboy board=newcontemporary thread=3969 post=51423 time=1318250426] still holding out hope for a piece from levine.... being in the 30s on the waitlist likely means zero chance for me though!

Didn't know that you could find out where you are on the list. Did you just ask ?

I sort of want to know because that'll be quite a chunk of change that could be used on something else quite special if I have no hope.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by hellosir on Oct 10, 2011, 2:50pm

Interesting to hear aboit everyone knowing but not making purchases. I remember finding out about him and shortly thereafter became active here. Took me awhile to purchase but I think my first order was 3 prints. Proceeded to build my collection from there. I have thinned out my collection to my favorites, white cosmo and cluster study. Everything else has gone to help me acquire art that I would not have been able to keep it all. Nor do I have the wall space.

This piece I was not fond of at the beginning and the lighting and detail shot sold me on it. I imagine that the bird is a superdove and has the strength to either pull or lower the cosmo and remember something jem mentioned in an interview about imaginative motion. The three pieces mentioned plus cafe and perfect vacuum capture this beautifully. Can't wait to see what comes out for April and am really pleased to see such success for someone who backs up talent with service. Something I truly respect in their operation.

Alex I'm curious too about how you found out where you are on the list. I know I got a personal reply when I inquired about the show upon first hearing frfom Soph. I can't even remember when though.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by epicfai on Oct 10, 2011, 3:15pm


Oct 10, 2011, 1:51pm, pricklypete wrote:

Didn't know that you could find out where you are on the list. Did you just ask ?

yep, just asked. its nice to know but honestly i doubt that they will sell this show based on a first-come, first served waitlist. i would guess their regular clients will get first shot. could be wrong though. cheers!

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Jeremy Geddes
Post by pricklypete on Oct 10, 2011, 3:43pm

Yeah, I was afraid of that. I've only ever bought one smaller piece from there. Always bad timing for me, if I have $$$ I don't get a shot at anything. If I'm broke there are pieces available. Oh well, you win some, you lose some. Still holding out hope though.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by peetov on Oct 10, 2011, 4:48pm

i sent an email to levine immediately after the show was announced. i've emailed them multiple times since then and never receive a response. i can't even find out if i'm on the list. so lame.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by napart on Oct 14, 2011, 10:07am

I'm excited for everyone who scored "Warmer Air". I had to show some restraint and pass... Still have too many prints that I need to frame. I can't wait to see pics when you all have them framed and hanging on the wall!

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by epicfai on Oct 18, 2011, 3:36am



Pale Memory

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by shine166 on Oct 18, 2011, 3:46am

that is epic

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Jeremy Geddes
Post by anarquee on Oct 18, 2011, 3:48am


Oct 18, 2011, 3:36am, epicfai wrote:

Pale Memory

love it!

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by sal on Oct 18, 2011, 4:09am


Oct 18, 2011, 3:46am, shine166 wrote:

that is epic

EPIC is definitely the word that suits this piece.. so much power in it..

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by epicfai on Oct 18, 2011, 5:55am


Oct 18, 2011, 4:09am, sal wrote:

Oct 18, 2011, 3:46am, shine166 wrote: that is epic EPIC is definitely the word that suits this piece.. so much power in it..

i love the fact that it is "only" a test painting or prelim of sorts.

"This is a very small painting, just 45cm * 34cm. I painted at this scale because it was also acting as a proof of concept, I wanted to make sure I could paint this sort of thing before I expanded it into larger paintings."

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by shine166 on Oct 18, 2011, 5:59am

How old is Geddes ? The guy paints like he's been doing it for decades

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by lowpro on Oct 18, 2011, 6:03am

Wow. Truly mindblowing. Such a talent.

If only he had continued to sell art independent of galleries, I would've been able to enjoy something from him on my walls. But he had to go and sign with Levine of all people. Such a bad move.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by rhythmgtr5 on Oct 18, 2011, 8:00am

This piece is amazing both in detail and composition. I wonder if these smaller study paintings will ever become available for sale? My only complaint with this piece is that the people in the cannonball look a bit emaciated and I'd rather they be clothed. Minor complaint though as I'd still hang it

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by comiconart on Oct 18, 2011, 10:17am


Oct 18, 2011, 6:03am, lowpro wrote:

Wow. Truly mindblowing. Such a talent. If only he had continued to sell art independent of galleries, I would've been able to enjoy something from him on my walls. But he had to go and sign with Levine of all people. Such a bad move.

Totally agree on all counts.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by murdock on Oct 18, 2011, 10:18am


Oct 18, 2011, 6:03am, lowpro wrote:

But he had to go and sign with Levine of all people. Such a bad move.

Why's that (from Geddes' perspective)?

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by admin on Oct 18, 2011, 10:46am

I'm all for juicy gossip, but I have a feeling this might go off topic here if this continues. Although sometimes it's pertinent to discuss specific relationships between certain artists and their gallerists in the artist thread, if there is nothing special about this particular artist and this particular gallery, it might be better to start a separate thread just to to discuss that gallery or galleries in general to discuss them overall

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by murdock on Oct 19, 2011, 11:02am

Fair enough.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by peetov on Oct 19, 2011, 12:09pm


Oct 18, 2011, 5:59am, shine166 wrote:

How old is Geddes ? The guy paints like he's been doing it for centuries

i believe he's early/mid thirties if i'm not mistaken.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by lowpro on Oct 19, 2011, 5:46pm


Oct 18, 2011, 10:18am, murdock wrote:

Oct 18, 2011, 6:03am, lowpro wrote: But he had to go and sign with Levine of all people. Such a bad move. Why's that (from Geddes' perspective)?

After consciously holding out for so long and being so anti-gallery and independent in their original business model, I just think there were better galleries they could've selected. They're doing Levine way more favors than he's doing for them. Nothing more. Nothing less.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by shine166 on Oct 19, 2011, 7:36pm


Oct 19, 2011, 12:09pm, peetov wrote:

Oct 18, 2011, 5:59am, shine166 wrote: How old is Geddes ? The guy paints like he's been doing it for centuries i believe he's early/mid thirties if i'm not mistaken.

cheers... no idea why I said centuries 

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by peetov on Oct 19, 2011, 8:32pm

hah. i said centuries, you had said decades. i was just echoing my thoughts were similar to yours just a little more extreme.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by droow2 on Oct 20, 2011, 11:41am


Oct 19, 2011, 7:24pm, tpthaler wrote:

Oct 19, 2011, 5:46pm, lowpro wrote: After consciously holding out for so long and being so anti-gallery and independent in their original business model, I just think there were better galleries they could've selected. They're doing Levine way more favors than he's doing for them. Nothing more. Nothing less. I agree! If he was set on trying out the gallery route, I think he should have gone west coast (plus, it's shorter flight)... Someone like Thinkspace would have been great. Oh wells, maybe he will go back to his old business model after JLG.

it was between JLG and Corey Helford.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by rhinomilk on Oct 20, 2011, 1:20pm

Geddes + Ashley Wood openings under one roof sounds so divine.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by admin on Jan 5, 2012, 7:06pm

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by epicfai on Jan 22, 2012, 9:25pm

'Cluster' 2012



Detail shots...

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by hillsj2001 on Jan 22, 2012, 9:34pm

i better sell something to fund the print purchase

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by sal on Feb 4, 2012, 5:53am

Jeremy Geddes announced a new print release on Tuesday 7th February at approximately 8am Melbourne time (convert to your time zone HERE).

Cluster:


there will be a regular print available for $190 AUD (61cm x 64cm), edition of 200, and large print for $850 AUD (approximately 1 meter square), edition of only 10

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by hillsj2001 on Feb 5, 2012, 10:09am

looks like this is gonna be a hard drop for me...no wifi at work and have never attempted a purchase using my phone...

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Jeremy Geddes
Post by urbanite on Feb 6, 2012, 4:12pm

200 sold in under 2 mins? Really??

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by sal on Feb 6, 2012, 4:17pm

the site never loaded for me, plus I was busy playing with this:



was wondering what kind of connection do people that got one use?!.. Insomniac?!

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by sal on Feb 6, 2012, 4:30pm


Feb 6, 2012, 4:25pm, tpthaler wrote:

I can't give away my secrets, but let's just say I have access to servers all across the world, with the fastest internet connections, using a browser (with custom settings) and operating system you have never heard of ... But this was by far the most overloaded print sale I have ever tried to get. Usually it's not problem. This one took a bit more work. Some of my requests started a few minutes before the drop and didn't connect until a minute or two after the print. Some of my requests didn't connect at all, but I am a programmer so I have an unfair advantage when it comes to print drops!

aaaaaaalright than, time to call my nerdy friends than... 

I have to look into these things (I do know a tiny little bit about it, so I kind of have a clue what you're talking about).. Im sick of not getting even close when these big things drop..

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by amin on Feb 6, 2012, 5:33pm


Feb 6, 2012, 4:12pm, tpthaler wrote:

Feb 5, 2012, 10:09am, hillsj2001 wrote: looks like this is gonna be a hard drop for me...no wifi at work and have never attempted a purchase using my phone... That drop was insane... His site started going down 30 minutes prior to the release (usually it's 5-10 minutes prior)... But I snagged one for a fellow board member. I have yet to find a print drop that I can't get! I had over 5 browsers going on multiple internet connections, and the interesting thing is the paypal source code button was still up at 14 minutes after the drop. I wonder why it was out there so long (prob. due to the traffic jam with the site). I should seriously consider building a system that can handle the traffic for artists like this (kawasaki's is close to the best, but her site still can't handle the traffic). I could setup a cloud for the hour around the release to any high demand artist. I think it's strange no one has done it yet (prob. no money in it). I would prob. trade my services for artwork though...

I do it for several artists 

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by sixteenounces on Feb 6, 2012, 5:50pm

I know it happens all the time, but damn it makes me angry when they are already up on EBay. Takes a little bit out of me every time. Vultures.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by greenhorn1 on Feb 6, 2012, 6:18pm

I made it through but JUST in the nick of time. I had several browsers open trying to refresh and nothing was happening. Then I got lucky by opening the link in a brand new window and it popped up with the purchase button. Very glad I decided to leave work early because there's no way I would have gotten one on our 1MB work connection.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by amin on Feb 6, 2012, 6:20pm


Feb 6, 2012, 5:39pm, tpthaler wrote:

Feb 6, 2012, 5:33pm, amin wrote: I do it for several artists  Well there you go, do you use a cloud service to provide scalable hosting (like amazon)? And you should get more of those paypal artists to use your system!!!

I use a combination of environments as I have a proprietary arbitrage system for cloud resources. We spread workloads across amazon, azure, and rackspace.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by greenhorn1 on Feb 6, 2012, 6:21pm

From jeremy's FB...

Cluster, both regular and large prints, have sold out, thanks to everyone who bought one.

We're sorry for those who missed out, we weren't expecting Cluster to have the same response as A Perfect Vacuum so we were surprised by the speed it sold out.

In future we'll be doing larger editions!

And...

I should also mention that along with the normal print runs, we will try to do a timed release (like Warmer Air) at least once a year, so there should always be opportunities to get a print.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by katrin on Feb 7, 2012, 2:30pm

When I read about these complicated set-ups I feel almost bad that I made it through with my regular internet connection, firefox, and just three clicks until the print was mine after 19 seconds.
But I was prepared, I knew where the purchase button would appear, I guess I refreshed at the right moment and clicked as soon as I saw some black text in that corner. Or maybe fortune favours the fools 

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by hillsj2001 on Feb 8, 2012, 11:24am


Feb 7, 2012, 2:30pm, katrin wrote:

When I read about these complicated set-ups I feel almost bad that I made it through with my regular internet connection, firefox, and just three clicks until the print was mine after 19 seconds. But I was prepared, I knew where the purchase button would appear, I guess I refreshed at the right moment and clicked as soon as I saw some black text in that corner. Or maybe fortune favours the fools

i knew where the purchase button was gonna be, but it never seemed to show up for me...oh well, win some and lose some

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by suckerpunch on Feb 12, 2012, 7:04am

Well done who bagged one of these, i did not stand a chance , nevermind.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by hre on Feb 12, 2012, 9:02am

I also tried for one but was not quick enough.
maybe next time.

I hear he is to do larger editions for his next prints

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by xander on Feb 23, 2012, 12:04am

From what I've heard from Sophie, Jeremy's going to try to do larger print editions and maybe a timed release (Warmer Air) every year or so.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by shine166 on Feb 26, 2012, 11:03am

I must be half asleep when visiting this place or checking emails as I seem to have completely misssed this Geddes release again lol

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by xander on Mar 3, 2012, 8:59pm

If anyone is looking to sell a Street, please contact me about how much you want for it.

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Re: Jeremy Geddes
Post by xander on Apr 7, 2012, 4:05am


Quote:

I know it happens all the time, but damn it makes me angry when they are already up on eBay. Takes a little bit out of me every time. Vultures.

Agreed, but right now, Cluster is at its peak, price-wise, at about an average of $650.

I think the larger edition number and the lack of Cosmonauts will eventually help deflate the price of it when Jeremy's JLG show is over.

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